| 23 JUN 2011 at 4:13am |
walshSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 384
Joined: 15 DEC 2010
Status : Offline | What's your price range?
How about this:
Motherboard: Asus P8H61-M-LE-USB3 $90
CPU: AM3x6 1100T $217
GPU: Asus 2G 6970 $395
Case: Coolermaster RC341 $75
DVD: LG SATA Blu-Ray/DVD Writer $105
HDD: WD Green 2TB $90
Monitor depends on what size you want, widescreen resolution or not, speakers or not.
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| 23 JUN 2011 at 1:40pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Thanks for the reply Walsh. You have no idea what a time-consuming headache this project is turning out to be.
My son seems to think 'the man in the computer shop' will know all the answers and will pick everything perfectly. That's not how I spend my money. When I get a pc built I have to know exactly what bits and pieces are going into it.
So far I think we've settled on the AMD x6 chip.
Asus motherboards have been recommended but I haven't picked out which one yet.
The graphics card is still unknown.
My son wants an SSD for his 'C' drive (fast OS) and two extra DDR3s... He wants 16 GB of RAM (max that Win7 can handle), a Samsung LED monitor, fancy new computer desk and a swish softly padded exec chair that he fell in love with the other day.
And he wants it all yesterday. He's driving me nuts. My price range would hopefully be around the $1000-$1500 mark with the obvious preference for it to be as low as possible.
The monitor must have Component as he wants it to take the HDMI cables and his recorder.
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| 23 JUN 2011 at 4:41pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4039
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | 1) Don't rush with the buying. Plan it all out carefully, or you might end up with a machine that doesn't fit together 100%.
Try not to go for an Asus mobo. One always has problems with drivers when it comes to Asus motherboards. Try to rather go for Gigabyte or Intel.
For a CPU, I would suggest the Intel I5 or I7 chipset. It's core technoolgy is currently better than what AMD offers.
For a GPU, you can go ATI if you like, but if you find the Sapphire Radeon 6970 a bit pricey for your tastes, I would suggest an Nvidia 570GTX chipset, which in my opinion is currently about the best value for money out there. (Gainward and XFX used to be your best makes, but Gigabyte isn't too bad, and these days MSI is apparently also bringing our quality GPU's.
Just make sure that your PSU is up to scratch, I wouldn't recommend going lower than 650 Watts, but with all the peripherals you are mentioning, probably even more; and once again here I would suggest going Gigabyte or Corsair.
Phew! A solid state drive is going to drive you bankrupt, but good for you if you can afford it. (Hey, I'm becoming pretty envious of your son here....) If you're going to get that as your C-drive, I would suggest going for the I7CPU chipset, with a good Gigabyte or Intel performance mobo that supports it.
Also, when buying your RAM, make sure you go for the faster RAM, and if your son is going to overclock his RAM, you get a heavy duty Buffalo or Corsair that can overclock to speeds of 2200. (Your mobo must support this, mind).
All in all, choosing a suitable mobo is the hardest thing. I'd suggest you decide on all the other components first, and then get a good performance mobo that supports all the bits and pieces.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 23 JUN 2011 at 4:59pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4039
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Correction: if you're going to go SSD, you might want to go Asus mobo after all, have a look at the P8Z68-V . Their technology involving SSd cache-ing is currently a bit newer than Gigabyte's, sadly.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 23 JUN 2011 at 6:05pm |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman
Posts : 1316
Joined: 15 JAN 2008
Location: GR
Status : Offline | It just so happens I'll order a new PC myself the day after tomorrow, so here are the guidelines I used.
I've been using Asus motherboards for the past 7 or so years, I've never had a problem with their drivers or anything else.
Of course, I used to work at a university computer lab, and we used the cheapest mobos we could find, at the time coming from Gigabyte, and I was pretty impressed at how reliable and durable they proved, working pretty much 24/7 for years without a hitch.
All in all, as long as you pick one of the better known vendors (Asus, Gigabyte, MSI) and go for the 90-130$ price range, you will be be fine.
If video encoding is indeed the primary use, then the AMD 6-core CPU is a good choice... just keep in mind that it is not quite as fast as the somewhat cheaper Intel i5-2500 when it comes to programs that do not benefit as much from multiple cores past a certain point, like, say, games.
An SSD as a dedicated OS drive is a very good choice, but still quite pricey. For myself, I chose to pick a model using a controller (the main component determining SSD speed) one generation older than the current one, to keep costs down while still having enormous performance gains over a traditional HDD. For the record, I picked the Corsair Force 115GB model.
Only the Home Premium edition of Win7 has a 16GB Ram limit, the Pro edition can handle more. You may not want to let your son know that . Of course, it must be the 64-bit version of the OS, 32-bit versions of any OS can't handle more than 4GB, regardless of how much is physically installed. 8GB is the price/performance sweetspot right now, and you don't need any of the ridiculously overpriced memory kits that support speeds above 1600Mhz. A good price would be about 100 US dollars (no idea how much that is in aussie dollars, but it should give you a price reference point) for 8GB of Ram at 1600Mhz. I again chose Corsair (it was not intentional, but in the end, more than half of my new rig's components (Case, PSU, CPU cooler, SSD, and memory kit) come from Corsair), a line called Corsair Vengeance.
Once again, since gaming is not the primary use of the new pc, then anything above an AMD 6950 1GB, or an Nvidia 560Ti 1GB, both going for around 250$ US, is overkill, and it could be argued that even those are more powerful than a PC that will see only occassional gaming time needs. But if you go that route, just pay attention to some confusion regarding Nvidia's latest mid-to-high end GPUs. The 560 and the 560-Ti are not the same cards, and the 560-Ti is by far the fastest, and available for only marginally more cash, so it's the one to pick.
The PSU is a very important component, and you should stay away from cheap units, promising 600W for 40-50$. That being said, there is no need for going overboard and getting a 800-900W, 80 Gold+ efficiency certified PSU for 200$ or more.
Traveller is wrong in this one recommendation, Gigabyte, while a very reputable motherboard and GPU vendor, is not a top choise for a PSU anymore, in fact they haven't refreshed their line in nearly 5 years, a lifetime in the world of high technology. You also don't need more than 650W for any PC that doesn't use more than one GPU in SLI/Crossfire mode. Once again, I picked Corsair, the 650W Enthusiast (TX V2 650W) model.
Hope this helps .
EDIT: The motherboard Traveller recommends, while an excellent choice, is only compatible with Intel CPUs, the line using socket 1155 to be exact.
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| 23 JUN 2011 at 6:46pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4039
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By nik2008ofs (23 JUN 2011 6:05pm)
Traveller is wrong in this one recommendation, Gigabyte, while a very reputable motherboard and GPU vendor, is not a top choise for a PSU anymore, in fact they haven't refreshed their line in nearly 5 years, a lifetime in the world of high technology. You also don't need more than 650W for any PC that doesn't use more than one GPU in SLI/Crossfire mode. Once again, I picked Corsair, the 650W Enthusiast (TX V2 650W) model.
Hope this helps .
EDIT: The motherboard Traveller recommends, while an excellent choice, is only compatible with Intel CPUs, the line using socket 1155 to be exact.
I shall bow to your superior PSU make and model knowledge, Nik.
As for some of the rest, I suppose ne'er the twain may meet when it comes to AMD/Intel and Asus. While you may have stuck to Asus, I've had a variety of mobo's, and Asus definitely comes off worst in my book. The mobo I recommended in my final post, is because I personally also have always preferred an Intel chipset above AMD. Some may say this is a personal preference, but it is one I personally feel is justified. Intel simply is better quality, and in this case, better performance as well.
Of course, if Caroline prefers to go AMD, she would have to look at a different mobo, that supports AMD.
The reason why I have recommended a 650 Watt PSU, is that once we decide to go multimedia (and who knows they might as well want to use such a top-end system for gaming as well, or want to run SLI, and /or use multiple hard drives; then it's better to get a slightly more powerful PSU that you are sure is going to cover your needs, than end up going through the disaster that struck poor Markonikov - and then you end up having to buy a new, more powerful PSU anyway.
The reason I personally have an 800 Watt PSU, is because I got it on a special deal about 4 years ago, and I must say that it's served me very well. However, I didn't say Caroline must also get 800 Watt, though I would stand by my suggestion of 650Watt, just to be safe.
Luckily GPU's and other hardware are seeing improved technology regarding power use. It's not all GPU's that would still draw 525 Watts of power on full load like your MSI GTX 480 Lightning, -but rather safe than sorry, I always say.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 24 JUN 2011 at 3:33am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Oh my goodness.... I've hit paydirt with all these knowledgeable suggestions. Thanks so much people. :-*
He will use this pc for gaming - he's 16.... His passion right now is recording his Call of Duty games and putting them onto youtube. But he's interested in a career in computer graphic design.
So.... he wants a fancy schmancy screen that will handle HDMI to hook up to his playstation 3. ammit these boys have more toys than me.
Traveller, the price on the intel i7 is prohibitive and the performance charts I've found show that it beats AMD in gaming but not in video rendering with Sony Vegas (which is what he's using).
What I really need is a sugar daddy. [smiley=angel_smiley.gif] [smiley=whistle.gif]
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| 24 JUN 2011 at 7:54am |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4039
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Hey, that's cool, Caroline - like I said the Intel is a personal preference, and I of course use mine primarily for gaming.
I'm sure the AMD will serve your purposes very well- these are all fast multicore processors we're talking about, so you won't see that much difference at the end of the day anyway. It's more important that you get best value for your money at the end of the day, anyway, than to go for a name just for the name's sake.
This is why I initially didn't even suggest a processor or mobo to start with. (It was your mention of getting an SSD (which I, at this point cannot really afford... :'( that got me going on the suggestions (because of the SSD tech on that mobo - tho I'm sure you'll find it on other AMD chipset mobo's too)
Each have their personal preferences, and my own personal interest of course lies more on the gaming side. :-*
However, I'm still damn envious of your boy. >
Good luck with your purchases! [smiley=wave.gif]
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 30 JUN 2011 at 9:23am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | This task is driving me nuts. I'm mentally exhausted trying to figure out what all the letters and numbers stand for. [smiley=hair_pull.gif] [smiley=hair_pull.gif] [smiley=hair_pull.gif]
I've set a hopeful max budget of $1500 for this computer. We're both happy to go AMD PHenom II x6 1090T CPU.
Working from there, I'm getting confused finding a motherboard. When the specs for the motherboard include 'chipset' - what exactly does that mean? Here's the page that's got me befuddled.
I don't want to skimp on the graphics card as he will use the pc for gaming and who knows what he'll play in the next couple of years - so it needs a bit of oomph.
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| 1 JUL 2011 at 8:45pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Caroline (30 JUN 2011 9:22am)
When the specs for the motherboard include 'chipset' - what exactly does that mean? Here's the page that's got me befuddled.
Use the letters and numbers to look up reviews. If you find a review saying one chipset "runs hot" that might cause a problem unless you add fans to the case. You can check reviews of different models at Newegg, even if you're not going to buy from them.
I don't know if the Wiki page with its diagrams will help you understand what a chipset is or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipset
Some chipsets are faster and run hotter. But most of the speed you'll see with games depends mostly on the video card, so you don't need the absolute fastest chipset. Choose a motherboard based on what slots and connections you want on it. For example do you want the option for two video cards running in SLI? How many old-type PCI slots do you want (for something like a sound card)? If you have a particular CPU in mind, make sure the motherboard will accept that CPU. If the computer is meant to be used for gaming, see if you can find reviews from gamers.
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| 2 JUL 2011 at 1:02am |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | You will also want to make note of the kind(s) of RAM the motherboard excepts, and in which configurations (if applicable). You should be able to find all kind of RAM for sale, but whatever motherboard you choose is likely to only support a relatively small subset.
As Jenny says, though, the nitty-gritty isn't helpful for settling on "the one". You'll want to see which motherboards are compatible with the CPU you plan to get and make sure a common denominator of RAM is available to you and make a short list out of that, then zero in on your final choice based on "feature" specs (expansion slot count, SLI/CrossFire support, number of SATA connectors, whether it has built-in wifi, USB3 and so on and so forth) or on reviews.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 2 JUL 2011 at 1:20am |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Caroline (30 JUN 2011 9:22am)
I've set a hopeful max budget of $1500 for this computer.
By the way: depending on whether you need to get a monitor et cetera or not, that should be plenty for something quite nice. Over the two and a half years I've had my current core parts I've spent far more than that, but my initial investment was 1,200$CAD, and while I should have spent more on the video card (and since have) and have added lots of storage and have had to replace two keyboards and the chassis by now, I was at the time both satisified and on budget, so you shouldn't have too much trouble, Caroline.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 21 JUL 2011 at 9:54pm |
Child Of DunwichPrivate Detective
Posts : 480
Joined: 25 MAY 2011
Status : Offline | Oh, to be born in a rich country....
Nature's first green is gold,&&Her hardest hue to hold.&&Her early leaf's a flower;&&But only so an hour.&&Then leaf subsides to leaf.&&So Eden sank to grief,&&So dawn goes down to day.&&Nothing gold can stay.
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| 30 JUL 2011 at 4:34pm |
Tally HoSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 341
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Hi Caroline -
You have a daunting task, and are facing it with great aplomb, I must say. (Think of it as Just Another Adventure Puzzle!)
Everyone's advice is really helpful, but don't forget the thing that makes the most difference: the speed of your connection. If your connection to the internet varies for any reason, the most dynamite computer in the world won't help.
Also, your boy is partly right regarding seeking advice from "the man in the computer store" but you might consider "the kid in the computer store" as being more up-to-date and in tune with your needs. Stand back and observe the various sales people (hopefully they have more than one or two!) and you might be able to spot one who actually knows what they are talking about and cares more about the customer's needs than a commission.
Oh - to what-his-name: Happy Birthday!! I was 16 once upon a time. It was great.
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| 1 AUG 2011 at 2:50am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I am at the point of ordering it. The budget has increased owing to the generosity of Grandma so I've now switched to an Intel i7....
The solid state drive is off the menu, as is the optical/digital input he wanted: let him have two headsets!
Even so, this is going to be one mean beastie....
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| 2 AUG 2011 at 11:09am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Okay. Here are the specs, with some confusion about which graphics card to buy.
MOBO: ASUS P6x5-E
CPU: iNTEL i7 980 Hex Core
GPU: he wants the Superhero version but I'm not sure any of his games will require this .... Gigabyte GF GTX 580 PCI-E 2.0 1536MB DDR5 384-bit, 795/4008MHz, 2x Dual-Link DVI, 1x mini HDMI,
I'm suggesting Gigabyte GF GTX 560 PCI-E 2.0 1GB 256-bit DDR5, 830/4008MHz, 2x Dual-Link DVI, 1x mini HDMI
The main difference that I can see appears to be his fixation with it having 2GB of RAM instead of 1. o any games require these specs? His choice also has a 3D option but won't he need a special screen for that or will the 3D goggles do? He's thinking down the line now.
Surely if we get the 1GB GPU, by the time he wants an upgrade, they will have come down in price and advanced in technology?
HD Western Digital x2 500GB 7200rpm. I read up about the SSD and 10K h/d's and decided that he simply didn't need the smokin' hot rod version of every component.
PSU Corsair 850TX 850w which would need to go upto 1000w if we go for the 2GB GPU.
So what I really need right now, is advice about the GPU.
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| 2 AUG 2011 at 10:20pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Either card will do just fine - the GTX 580 has an additional 50% more bandwidth on the memory bus (128 GB versus 192 GB). But, it also has a higher power consumption (170 watts versus 244 watts).
Do games need that much ram - it depends on what you play I suppose.
As to the 3D component - that's an it depends answer. If the monitor supports a 120 MHz refresh rate he can use 3D Vision glasses, otherwise he's going to have to use 3D Discover type glasses (with the red and blue lenses). I use both but prefer the 3D Vision glasses.
I don’t know what prices run in your neck of the woods, but over here the price is about double for the GTX 580.
Make him post how much he loves you on his Facebook page
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| 3 AUG 2011 at 12:32am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I now know far more technical jargon than I ever wanted to and last night when I decided that he really doesn't need the 2GB card he said 'I knew you'd stinge out'..... so today I've ordered the GTX560 Ti. Total price of the box = $1925.
Now for the monitor - I expect he'll give me grief over that as well. : He's already been running a campaign for a fancy chair for over a month now. [smiley=hair_pull.gif]
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| 4 AUG 2011 at 3:23pm |
Child Of DunwichPrivate Detective
Posts : 480
Joined: 25 MAY 2011
Status : Offline | How much do 4 gigs of ram cost in the US?
Nature's first green is gold,&&Her hardest hue to hold.&&Her early leaf's a flower;&&But only so an hour.&&Then leaf subsides to leaf.&&So Eden sank to grief,&&So dawn goes down to day.&&Nothing gold can stay.
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| 4 AUG 2011 at 4:40pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | For Caroline's Mobo - it would start in the $50.00 (USD) range.
DDR3 2000 Desktop Memory
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| 5 AUG 2011 at 11:22am |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman
Posts : 1316
Joined: 15 JAN 2008
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Actually, Caroline's motherboard supports triple-channel RAM, so the best options are kits with 3 sticks, at 3, 6, or 12GB total memory size.
Also, as far as gaming is concerned, stinging on the CPU (the hex-core can on some rare situations actually be a few fps slower than the fastest quad-core, due to the higher latency accessing its 12MB L3 cache requires) is far preferable to getting a cheaper GPU. And there is a great compromise between the one you picked and the one your son wants, the Nvidia GTX 570.
I've had my new rig for a couple of weeks now, and powerful as it is, the thing I love the most about it is the monitor, a 23" one using an IPS panel. I'll never be able to comfortably use a plain TN panel monitor for an extended period of time again, and up to a month ago I swore TN was good enough and spending more for an IPS panel was a waste of money :.
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| 5 AUG 2011 at 2:00pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4039
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | I'm glad Nik said it, because I was thinking it too; rather go for the i5 Quad CPU, and the GTX 570 GPU. I have a GTX 570, and it's almost not enough for some games - it gets taxed to its fullest (I use hardware monitoring software ), but my CPU (an i5 quad) is more than enough, and never gets taxed to it's fullest.
PS. They used to say a lot of RAM - over 1Gbyte RAM for your GPU, doesn't matter, but believe me, nowadays it does. I can't even max out some games like TW 2, or New Vegas, and on my previous system the game ate into my system RAM because the VRAM wasn't enough. Your latest generation games eat VRAM.
2 Gigs VRAM should definitely cover it, I'd say, but at under 1 you'll have to play some games at lower than max settings.
Oh, and my system is running fine on 800Watts with 3-5 hard drives and 3 fans (4 counting the CPU fan)
Hmmm, and last time I read about Caroline's intended shopping list she was opting for AMD and ATI.... :
Oh, and PPS, you don't need more than 8 Gigs system RAM and 6 Gigs should actually be quite enough already, especially if you have enough VRAM. (I checked back to your earlier posts and saw that your son actually wanted 16 Gigs system RAM ) Methinks he got to know "the man in the shop" too well...
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 6 AUG 2011 at 8:32am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Okay, the reason I switched from AMD to intel hex core was because I was building a computer that will be used for video editing. From all my reading it seems the programs he uses don't benefit from higher GPUs but from the CPU + triple core RAM - which is what he's got.
I reckon he'll want to upgrade his GPU in two years' time anyway - by which time, things will have changed dramatically anyway.
The games he plays are mostly older games, so I think the 560Ti will cope just fine. And there comes a point when you simply have to stop spending money, so some compromises are always necessary.
Now we're discussing LCD and LED monitors..... $200 vs $400 [smiley=hair_pull.gif]
And the keyboard ? oh, he wants what the market won't supply.... a soft touch HP keyboard.... :
He stands buckley's chance of having that fancy exec chair he fell in love with.... [Caroline clings onto her purse like grim death...]
I haven't told you the kicker yet. The school has insisted that all year 11&12 pupils must purchase an ipad. The new headmaster has switched the entire school community from a Windows environment to Apple. Parents spitting chips everywhere.... > [smiley=hair_pull.gif]
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| 6 AUG 2011 at 9:39am |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4039
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Yes, that should do fine for any games that came out pre-2011, and even for some 2011 games, depending on the genre, and from game to game, of course.
I haven't told you the kicker yet. The school has insisted that all year 11&12 pupils must purchase an ipad. The new headmaster has switched the entire school community from a Windows environment to Apple. Parents spitting chips everywhere....
Gee, can he actually force you right away, just like that? You could always change schools ..-or threaten to. On the other hand, the iPad is a nice toy - if you can afford it....
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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