| 10 JUN 2011 at 5:26pm |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2548
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | Yes i have been posting about the new mods for Morrowind for the past year or so...MGE expands the capacity of the engine greatly and dynamic shadows and superb texture packs from one great modder make it look as good if not better than Oblvion in some ways.
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3D Worlds and Game Developers
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| 10 JUN 2011 at 5:50pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | There is no doubt that Oblivion itself is still one of the most beautiful and immersive game worlds around. The absolute freedom, and the freedom to mod which has led to hundreds of mods, make these TES games very special to experience.
Yes, you've been a great help with both Morrowind and Oblivion, Chris!
All of the above is starting to make me feel pretty excited about Skyrim; I really and truly hope that this game is not going to disappoint.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 10 JUN 2011 at 5:59pm |
InesrocksPrivate Detective
Posts : 682
Joined: 16 OCT 2008
Location: PT
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By placeholder (10 JUN 2011 3:37pm)
Originally Posted By Inesrocks (10 JUN 2011 2:47pm)
, and the fact that I started playing it after trying Oblivion made me not like the game much...
erm... well, of course that is the wrong order to do things in.
If you didn't play Morrowind when it was released, or close to release date, and then never even finished the game, how can you compare? I can quite understand if you love Oblivion - it's a very pretty and a very immersive game, but if you didn't finish Morrowind, you don't know what the full game is like, right?
It's the same for me regarding Daggerfall; I never played it because it was a bit before my RPG'ing time, and I tried a while back, and the same thing, dated graphics, engine etc. prevented me from properly trying the game. ..but with my new rig, I am soon going to re-install DOSbox and give Daggerfall another go.
Of course Morrowind LOOKS worse graphically, it's a much older game. That's why even I who loved the original vanilla game, play it with mods these days.
The largeness of the areas and the getting lost is half the fun of it - you have to listen carefully to instructions - even jot them down; it's like playing an adventure - finding places are puzzles the first time around you play. Also, if you were "getting lost" you're missing the point of the game. It's not a linear game that you have to play in a certain order. It's a world to be discovered, and wherever you find yourself on the map, there are things to discover. It's a place you (virtually) live in, not a game you play in a pre-determined order. (And that is half the charm of the game, you never feel rushed; there is no time-limit to anything - whether you take a year or a day to finish a certain questline doesn't matter. )
Of course, once you've been through the entire map, you know where everything is; and also, this is not a game to rush through, you have to have the time to give a lot of time to it.
There is nothing wrong with Morrowind's map, it has very efficient large- scale and small-scale maps, perhaps you just didn't know how to access them? ..or perhaps it the lack of a quest marker that you missed? (A quest marker being an invention of newer games that I personally hate; it makes everything just too easy and takes the challenge away. You simply have to follow thew marker and don't have to think for yourself anymore. ..and don't say "just don't switch it off or don't look at it - older games had hints in place of quest markers. The NPC's or books or messages in the game world gave you hints as to where to look, you don't have that in games with quest markers. )
I have a lovely map of the place somewhere. I shall search for it and post a shot of it.
Yeah sure, I can't say Oblivion is better than Morrowind as I never finished the later, but I can say for sure which one I enjoyed best
Guess I know why I dont like the map thing in Morrowind (the lack of quest markers). I understand that for you that's where the fun is, to find for yourself where the place, the person, quest item is located... But for me, I don't really like to be roaming around without a purpose, spending time running up and down and not finding anything, for me that's frustrating. As I usually don't have much time to play, I have to get things done when I actually do, otherwise I just get bored. Guess that's why I never liked games like Myst and stuff where you have to be the one finding everything...
Playing: Skyrim (ongoing)
Last Finished: can't recall, been too long.
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| 10 JUN 2011 at 10:06pm |
Child Of DunwichPrivate Detective
Posts : 480
Joined: 25 MAY 2011
Status : Offline | Dagerfall? I just downloaded it today, free of charge, but I can't get it to work properly. The attack command does not work. I never played Morrowind, I have a copy, I'll try tomorrow.
Nature's first green is gold,&&Her hardest hue to hold.&&Her early leaf's a flower;&&But only so an hour.&&Then leaf subsides to leaf.&&So Eden sank to grief,&&So dawn goes down to day.&&Nothing gold can stay.
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| 10 JUN 2011 at 11:05pm |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2759
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | You need to swing your mouse while holding down the attack button to attack. Different swings does a different amount of damage, and has a different hit chance (though I don't remember which swing does what, I have not played the game in some time).
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| 11 JUN 2011 at 1:21am |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1655
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Yeah, well, you had to be there. When Morrowind was launched, I mean. I'm sure it rocked the world, I'm sure the story swept you away and the graphics knocked you out.
I began with Oblivion and, even though I tried, I find Morrowind impossible to conquer graphically. Many of you know my documented attempts. Frankly, I don't care about the story--I want the world first. Just like I want romance first, then I'll consider a relationship. FYI, I'm divorced twice, so....)
From what I've seen of Skyrim (the 13-minute video) it takes Oblivion's environment to a new level. It seems harsher, though, and not as intimate. I love that difference, but Oblivion had something personal that will be hard to beat emotionally.
Then again, if you start with Skyrim, you'll be trashing Oblivion. I love evolution, don't you?
I still play Oblivion, fool with mods, replay quests. It's home. It's gorgeous. Then again, I can move to something new.
BTW I feel the same about Fallout 3 vs New Vegas. New Vegas is a game. Fallout 3 is an experience. Until, of course, something new comes along.
MOH Allied Assault blew me away in 2002. I played it last weekend and was shocked at how rough and stilted it looked.
Then again, I fired up my Atari 2600 and played the very first adventure game, Adventure. Pixelated bliss.
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| 11 JUN 2011 at 7:42am |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By dwwa (10 JUN 2011 10:05pm)
Dagerfall? I just downloaded it today, free of charge, but I can't get it to work properly. The attack command does not work. I never played Morrowind, I have a copy, I'll try tomorrow.
I tried it again myself, and I must say that I think people playing with those kinds of controls and graphics are very brave.
I also struggled to get my sword to work properly. You have to move your mouse from the top right corner in a curve towards the middle bottom, or middle left of the screen. I suppose one gets used to it.
I'll try again another time, but it's not going to be an easy ride, it looks like...
Oh, PS, COD, one very fun thing and cool thing that Morrowind has but Oblivion hasn't, is that you can fly. I really really hope you'll be able to fly again in Skyrim...
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 11 JUN 2011 at 8:02am |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TAS (11 JUN 2011 1:20am)
Yeah, well, you had to be there. When Morrowind was launched, I mean. I'm sure it rocked the world, I'm sure the story swept you away and the graphics knocked you out.
I began with Oblivion and, even though I tried, I find Morrowind impossible to conquer graphically. Many of you know my documented attempts. Frankly, I don't care about the story--I want the world first. (Just like I want romance first, then I'll consider a relationship. FYI, I'm divorced twice, so....)
From what I've seen of Skyrim (the 13-minute video) it takes Oblivion's environment to a new level. It seems harsher, though, and not as intimate. I love that difference, but Oblivion had something personal that will be hard to beat emotionally.
Then again, if you start with Skyrim, you'll be trashing Oblivion. I love evolution, don't you?
I still play Oblivion, fool with mods, replay quests. It's home. It's gorgeous. Then again, I can move to something new.
BTW I feel the same about Fallout 3 vs New Vegas. New Vegas is a game. Fallout 3 is an experience. Until, of course, something new comes along.
MOH Allied Assault blew me away in 2002. I played it last weekend and was shocked at how rough and stilted it looked.
Then again, I fired up my Atari 2600 and played the very first adventure game, Adventure. Pixelated bliss.
I've come to realise that a quirk of being a gamer is that sequels never seem to measure up to its predecessor, except for those who play the sequel first. What do they say: the first cut is the deepest.
There are a few exceptions, like Syberia 2 and the Gabriel Knight games, but such are few and far between.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 11 JUN 2011 at 10:18am |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2759
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | And Super Metroid, the best game in the series (now I feel like plugging in my SNES again).
It takes a real effort to play a game in a series that you have any experience with on its own merit. It is far too easy to just compare it to the previous game(s) that you have played, and find all the flaws that were not there the first time around. When it comes to bad graphics though, I've found that it usually takes ~½-1h to get used to it, as long as the game itself is good.
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| 11 JUN 2011 at 8:36pm |
StilerJourneyman
Posts : 1477
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, TN
Status : Offline | If some of you didn't see it, the G4TV version of E3 had some different footage of the game then the pre-recorded trailer that was shown every else (Gametrialers/gamespot/ign, etc).
Which shows off horses (and riding them) and some smal town setting.
http://www.g4tv.com/videos/53441/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-E3-Gameplay-Demo/
You'll notice some disappointing things though if you look for them, like the fact that armor has been even MORE dumbed down.
Now we have no pauldrons, no greaves, just "elven armor" which means there's going to be a LOT less customization for your characters looks, even moreso then Oblivion. Also of note, this doesnt' mean modders can easily "fix" it, as they'll have to hope beth left in means to have seperate things for that in the engine.
Sadly in a Q&A on gamespot, they said that mounts, just like Oblivions stupid stupid mounts, would have no combat on them.
So that means when you are attacked, or see someoen to attack, you first stop, dismount, kill it, get back on, ride ahead, then see something else and rinse repeat.
This is super ANNOYING to me and one of the worst things that heled Oblivion's horses back (Aside from the horrible animation).
Todd said they were holding mounts back (when Skyrim was announced) to do it better. He said after Red Dead Redemption he felt they needed to do them right this time.
So right means the same as Oblivion? The mount in the video still had a very weird animation (it's body has no movement/animation, just the legs it seems).
Just compare it to RDR's horses (Which imo are hands down the best in a game to date)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcCFPRJZMXc
Apart from that disappointing news though the game looked good, can't wait to try it.
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| 11 JUN 2011 at 9:41pm |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1655
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | About sequels. I thought TLJ was a masterpiece. I played it often. Dreamfall came much later and at first I didn't like it, then I really fell in love with it. Then I went back and played TLJ....you can never go back. It looked ancient. Very illusion-busting. Legendary games are truly legends in their own time, living on in the mind and heart. Revisiting them should be done with forgiveness.
I know a lot of you like to go back and recapture the experiences of playing older games. The only game I seriously went back and embraced was Blade Runner. It was great for a time, then the graphics caught up with me and I felt I was just wasting my time. I didn't like feeling that way, but when the bubble gum goes stale, you spit it out and get a new piece.
I agree about the horses in Skyrim. How can Beth look at them and say "Ah, finally we got 'em right!" The tail has the weirdest movement and points of attachment. And they're fat, not elegant. Maybe they'll refine them. And I am suspicious about the dragons, as well. I hope the fighting doesn't cross into Gothic.
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Exercise your vision.
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| 12 JUN 2011 at 4:07am |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2548
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | I am glad to see there is so much lively discussion ! gonna be fun when we all get let loose in the new ES!
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| 12 JUN 2011 at 5:14am |
| Deleted User | After watching the video, my interest has definitely spiked. Sadly I doubt I will ever have the time to catch up with all the earlier sagas of the ES series of games but hopefully that won't matter.
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| 12 JUN 2011 at 8:32am |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TAS (11 JUN 2011 9:41pm)
About sequels. I thought TLJ was a masterpiece. I played it often. Dreamfall came much later and at first I didn't like it, then I really fell in love with it. Then I went back and played TLJ....you can never go back. It looked ancient. Very illusion-busting. Legendary games are truly legends in their own time, living on in the mind and heart. Revisiting them should be done with forgiveness.
I know a lot of you like to go back and recapture the experiences of playing older games. The only game I seriously went back and embraced was Blade Runner. It was great for a time, then the graphics caught up with me and I felt I was just wasting my time. I didn't like feeling that way, but when the bubble gum goes stale, you spit it out and get a new piece.
I agree about the horses in Skyrim. How can Beth look at them and say "Ah, finally we got 'em right!" The tail has the weirdest movement and points of attachment. And they're fat, not elegant. Maybe they'll refine them. And I am suspicious about the dragons, as well. I hope the fighting doesn't cross into Gothic.
Mmmm. I agree about dated graphics being offputting, but if the art direction was good, old games are not always displeasing: Loom and Heroes of Might and Magic 1 come to mind in this regard. Another older game with which I find the graphics still amazingly good-looking, is Jade Empire. I plan to play it again sometime.
On the other hand, different people look for different things in games. I rate gameplay quite highly in a non-adventure. if that is good, like fnord says, one soon becomes used to the graphics. Just look at the popularity of a game like Dwarven Fortress to illustrate this point.
I know that Halcyon's priority is cutting-edge graphics, though, so different strokes for different folks.
@ CB: trust me: it won't matter. I never played a TES game before Morrowind, and lots of people loved Oblivion withpout playing other TES games either. If you have the time, CB, I would certainly recommend that you try out Oblivion GOTY though. It's a worthwhile experience, and a game ( just like Morrowind for me, in addition) that one can savor over a long period of time. Good value for money there.
Re the horses: I must be one of the few people on the planet who cares less about this. I prefer running around on my own two legs. The only time in Oblivion when I rather obsessively rode a mount, was when I had found and tamed (ok, semi-tamed) the unicorn.
In Two Worlds I just gave up horses as a bad job.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 13 JUN 2011 at 12:35am |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1655
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Well, I was mostly talking about first impressions and bonding with a game, which overshadows its sequel regardless of quality, but, yeah, all that.
For "video" games, of course my priority is graphics. That should be a given. Story artistry is next on my list--meaning, no amateurs allowed. In action games, action is a priority. In adventures, involvement is key. And so on. Frankly, there has not been one video game that I've played that I would play again only for the story. And there are those that I once enjoyed that I would not play again due to outdated graphics. But, please, enough about me. Sorry.
URU, the standalone game, still holds up and is gorgeous, and that's nearly ten years old.
About horses--Yeah, I don't care much, either. But it would be COOL to fight on a real-looking mount and chase a foe, shooting arrows or spells, doing that neat-o jump down and re-mount trick.
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Exercise your vision.
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| 13 JUN 2011 at 5:42am |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2759
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | The horses in Two worlds were a bit awkward (though they manual explained why they designed them like they did), but once you got used to them, they could be quite useful, in particular early on.
Why could they not simply be "inspired" by Mount & Blade? That game handled mounted combat really well, and with the more advanced physics engine of a TES game, they could even make relatively realistic mounted combat.
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| 13 JUN 2011 at 9:19pm |
Child Of DunwichPrivate Detective
Posts : 480
Joined: 25 MAY 2011
Status : Offline | So the combat won't be like i oblivion, but like mount and blade? Played the game, very fun, but still, oblivion is better, far better than it. Why change it?
Nature's first green is gold,&&Her hardest hue to hold.&&Her early leaf's a flower;&&But only so an hour.&&Then leaf subsides to leaf.&&So Eden sank to grief,&&So dawn goes down to day.&&Nothing gold can stay.
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| 13 JUN 2011 at 9:28pm |
StilerJourneyman
Posts : 1477
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, TN
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By dwwa (13 JUN 2011 9:19pm)
So the combat won't be like i oblivion, but like mount and blade? Played the game, very fun, but still, oblivion is better, far better than it. Why change it?
Err, he said why couldn't they be inspired by Mount and blade as far as Mounts and combat goes.
The combat in Skyrim is still quite similar to Oblivion, it's nothing like Mount and Blade.
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| 14 JUN 2011 at 1:28am |
HalcyonSchattenjger
Posts : 1655
Joined: 17 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | If they keep teasers coming, I might just be talking about this until 11 11 11, which is (yes) 11 days before my birthday. Kismet, baby!
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Exercise your vision.
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| 14 JUN 2011 at 9:22am |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TAS (14 JUN 2011 1:27am)
If they keep teasers coming, I might just be talking about this until 11 11 11, which is (yes) 11 days before my birthday. Kismet, baby!
Now that is weird. A compulsive obsessive's paradise! Not to mention that it's even in digital code!
[smiley=rofl.gif] [smiley=rofl.gif] [smiley=rofl.gif]
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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