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| 1 MAY 2010 at 4:17pm | |
| Deleted User | Ok, we really started to go off topic with this in the gaming section, so I decided to take the initiative to move it to OT. I'll post the last few posts here, to start off the thread here again, the original thread can be viewed here: http://justadventure.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1271723442/72#72 Originally Posted By Rael (30 APR 2010 12:47pm) Originally Posted By TheTraveler (30 APR 2010 12:56pm) Originally Posted By TechnoSpike (30 APR 2010 2:18pm) Originally Posted By Rael (30 APR 2010 3:29pm)Originally Posted By TechnoSpike (30 APR 2010 2:19pm) Originally Posted By JKing (30 APR 2010 7:11pm) Originally Posted By colpet (30 APR 2010 8:45pm) |
| 1 MAY 2010 at 4:20pm | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By TAS (30 APR 2010 10:58pm)Originally Posted By Rael (30 APR 2010 12:47pm) Originally Posted By Gonchi (30 APR 2010 11:25pm) Originally Posted By Stiler (1 MAY 2010 5:44am) Originally Posted By TheTraveler (1 MAY 2010 9:26am)Originally Posted By TAS (30 APR 2010 10:58pm)Originally Posted By Rael (30 APR 2010 12:47pm) |
| 1 MAY 2010 at 4:23pm | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By TechnoSpike (1 MAY 2010 3:57pm) |
| 1 MAY 2010 at 5:53pm | |
MarkGuild Master  Posts : 3803 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Location: US, Georgia Status : Offline | I read The Stand when it was first published (huge book, it seemed) and thought it was quite terrifying. The movie? Blah. Didn't like. After seeing nearly all of Stephen King's adaptations for film and TV mini-series, my favorites are the original Carrie (with Sissy Spacek) and Salem's Lot (both the original mini-series and the remake with Rob Lowe). I'm an unabashed glutton for the Horror genre in film and made-for-tv series but I'm sorry to say, Stephen King has never been a favorite of mine for source material. Not even The Shining or more recently The Mist has given me the cold chills I seek in horror. As fine a film as The Shawshank Redemption is, I do not consider it a "horror" film. However, mainly because of Tim Curry's performance in the TV mini-series It, "it" had some pretty terrifying moments. Stephen King has the ability to come up with some truly original and frightening characters and scary situations but sadly lapses into unnecessary melodrama when adapted for the big screen or television. Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out. |
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| 1 MAY 2010 at 10:41pm | |
CarolineJA+ Overseer  Posts : 16540 Joined: 28 JAN 2007 Location: AU Status : Offline | I have nothing constructive to add to this discussion as I don't read this genre and cannot watch this sort of movie. However, I will point out that Augustin, despite not thinking much of King's books, appear to keep reading them. King writes his books to be commercially successful, crowd pleasers. He's not producing literature - just entertainment. As such, I think if reading them produces the emotional thrill that you're looking for when you buy a horror book, then he has succeeded. At any rate, he's got your money. |
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| 2 MAY 2010 at 10:08am | |
alkis21Schattenjger  Posts : 2112 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: GR Status : Offline | You're breaking my heart, people. Every time someone says that Stephen King's books are not good, a little green radioactive slimy monster from outer space dies. Clap your hands to stop that from happening. Do you like classic adventure games? Check out Diamonds in the Rough! |
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| 2 MAY 2010 at 10:52am | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By alkis21 (2 MAY 2010 10:08am) Heh, you know I think Caroline summed it up nicely. King's books are good from a crowd-pleasing POV, and as pure entertainment, they are in fact very good. He has a fertile imagination and a florid style. That's nice for if you are just looking for light entertainment and cheap thrills in you horror fare. Some of us like a bit of subtely and mystery, and perhaps even a little something to reflect on. So when I criticized King's earlier works, it was from the latter POV, not the former. ..and as to the criticism pointed at Agustin for still reading King's books though he criticizes them: don't you have any guilty pleasures in your life? Some of us eat chocolate, though we know it is bad for our health. Some of us have beer or whiskey or "insert alcoholic beverage/tobacco product" even though we know it is bad for our health. Some of us read comic books/ cheap love stories/thrillers/ fantasy/horror even though we know it is not good literature. So, anybody around here who does not have a single guilty pleasure, or something they do to relax just for fun, please put up your hand. I will arrange for some therapy sessions for you to teach you how to relax sometimes and just enjoy life a bit. [smiley=music.gif] |
| 2 MAY 2010 at 11:11am | |
CarolineJA+ OverseerPosts : 16540 Joined: 28 JAN 2007 Location: AU Status : Offline | Traveller, I wasn't criticising Augustin - I was poking fun at him. Let's not take our books that seriously .... please? I can't finish a book if I feel let down by the author so I'd never buy a second. I suggest that Augustin probably enjoys the books more than he realises because what he's doing is showing reader loyalty. |
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| 2 MAY 2010 at 11:25am | |
alkis21SchattenjgerPosts : 2112 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: GR Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (2 MAY 2010 10:51am) I couldn't disagree more, and it makes sense that you mentioned Caroline who admitted that she is not a fan of the genre, because that's pretty much the opinion non-fans who have read 0-2 books and caught the odd King move have. King is anything but light entertainment and cheap thrills. I actually think he is a genius. He can portray characters like nobody's business, no matter what the sex, age, religion, cultural background, he gets you inside the characters' head and gives you their actual thoughts. He is so talented in that aspect that his actual stories are in fact secondary to me; I don't even need a story to enjoy his writing. My biggest pet peeve in books and movies is that the character's words all sound like they are delivered by the exact same person. King has conquered that. I was lost in the internal turmoil of the protagonist's brain in The Dark Half, I was touched by the teen girl's shame and confusion in Carrie, and I felt the gang in The Dark Tower as close to me as my best friends are. So trust me, I don't read King for the severed heads and the massacres. I actually believe that he can easily write whatever genre he chooses to: The Shawshank Redemption is still the people's #1 choice according to IMDB. He only chooses the horror genre because when you are scared you are more susceptible to external stimuli; he likes to catch your brain off guard and attack it. All according to my personal opinion, of course. Do you like classic adventure games? Check out Diamonds in the Rough! |
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| 2 MAY 2010 at 6:48pm | |
Lady KestrelGuild Master Posts : 4038 Joined: 27 SEP 2004 Location: US, NJ Status : Offline | I've read 28 of King's books and don't feel guilty about them at all. Of his horror stories, I like The Shining the best, but was disappointed in the Nicholsen movie because of the disappointing ending, the ignoring of important plot elements, such as the Spoiler Alertanimated topiary, the killing off of an important character, and the use of the wrong weapon: Spoiler Alerta croquet mallet is much more sinister than an ax because it's something fun turned into something deadly. Unfortunately, even though the made-for-tv movie was truer to the story, I agree with Augustin that the acting wasn't up to par, and I felt it lacked a degree of suspense. Spoiler AlertThe pull-back scenes of the kitchen cabinet doors opening was way overused. The Stand is also a favorite of mine, but I thought the mini-series was, on the whole, poorly done. I thought the best translation from book to screen was The Green Mile. Aside from some minor cinematic changes to make the story flow better on the screen, it was an excellent adaptation. I loved the Shawshank Redemption, too, although, as far as I know, there's no book for comparison. My most recently read King book was Duma Key, which I thoroughly enjoyed. If you're interested, I have a brief review of it here in the archives at Mystery Manor: Duma Key review "Where is the fountain that throws up these flowers in a ceaseless outbreak of ecstasy?" -Rabindranath Tagore |
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| 2 MAY 2010 at 7:14pm | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By LadyKestrel (2 MAY 2010 6:48pm) This would be about your closest bet, I'd wager. Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption That was a nice story. Much more upbeat than his horror stuff, I found. |
| 2 MAY 2010 at 7:30pm | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Caroline (2 MAY 2010 11:11am) Aw, c'mon, Caroline - I was just jokingly "defending" Agustin, since we have this pseudo-secret little mock-thingie between us. [smiley=blush.gif] *Ahem!* I thought it would be obvious I was joking a bit with the "guilty pleasures" thingie... @ Alkis : (nice to see you around for a change, btw ); - like I said in one of my earlier posts, I do like his books from the Dark Tower onwards. It is the earlier horror books and especially Pet Semetary that I did not like. I really like his more fantasy-oriented books, and I did mention that I thought he has a good style. |
| 2 MAY 2010 at 7:40pm | |
AShadowWalkerPrivate Detective  Posts : 776 Joined: 6 AUG 2009 Status : Online | My two cents worth on this is that on the one hand Caroline did get it just right in that Stephen King writes what the masses want. Regardless of whether is considered to be the best or the worst writing of all, the fact is that he writes what the public wants to read.....and buy. What some others do not think I believe to consider is that Stephen King, even if he is given credits on a movie listing as an advisor....that is all he is; no more. The directors and the producers are the ones that put the movie together and decide the direction that the movie shall follow. Even the picking of the actors performing the roles that Stephen King wrote might just as well not be according to his choice, and then he just might more than not, have absolutely no say in who is hired to make the characters come alive on the movie. One that I really did like because I thought that all the actors gotten were nothing less than a stroke of genius was “Needful Things”, particularly in the choosing of the main character of the book; Gaunt, aka Mr. Mephistopheles himself.....the devil! Max Von Sydow played the character perfectly...and I cannot think of any other individual who would have carried the role of Gaunt as well. And I as well considered the choosing of Bonnie Bedellia and Ed Harris to have been also the right master stroke for the rest of the main stars in the movie. I myself I am endeavoring to write a novel of several parts, and I could imagine only my efforts becoming a bestseller, and then, not having the luck that J.R. Rowling had in having a director, studio, and producers make my novel precisely as I want it and making the characters come to life and be memorable. Besides making tons of money it would also cement my name in history. But, I warrant that whether or not you get well paid for the movie rights, it has to be a moment of horrendous fear for a writer to have been fortunate enough to have written a great book with outstanding stories only to have it pandered and betrayed by schlock directors and studio heads. Even if you get well paid for it. Maybe that is what Stephen King has done. Taken the money...laugh all the way to the bank, and get the studios to do what they want. He is an easy writer to work with apparently. Maybe if you are a hard case in the pursuit of having your book be made to truly come to life and be exactly what you want, studios might consider you to be a pain in the a$$ and not come to that writer ever again, regardless of how good their book is or how well it has sold. |
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| 2 MAY 2010 at 8:42pm | |
Lady KestrelGuild MasterPosts : 4038 Joined: 27 SEP 2004 Location: US, NJ Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (2 MAY 2010 7:14pm) Thanks, Trav. I had looked for a full novel when I first saw the movie. I didn't realize it was a novella and not just a screenplay. Edit: Ah ha! I just went to look on my bookshelves and found the novella in a collection called Different Seasons. I also really liked the Dark Tower series. I had read the first two or three books when they first came out, but it took so long for King to continue it that I ended up starting from the beginning and reading the entire septilogy back-to-back. "Where is the fountain that throws up these flowers in a ceaseless outbreak of ecstasy?" -Rabindranath Tagore |
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| 2 MAY 2010 at 8:50pm | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By LadyKestrel (2 MAY 2010 8:42pm) [smiley=clap.gif] [smiley=laughing.gif] ...as always, I love your style, ladyK. You're one stylish bird, if I may say so.. Well, I'm glad you found it in the end. (The Shawshank novella, I mean) |
| 2 MAY 2010 at 9:45pm | |
Lady KestrelGuild MasterPosts : 4038 Joined: 27 SEP 2004 Location: US, NJ Status : Offline | Why thank you, oh peripatetic one! This xanthic passerine appreciates the compliment! "Where is the fountain that throws up these flowers in a ceaseless outbreak of ecstasy?" -Rabindranath Tagore |
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| 2 MAY 2010 at 9:45pm | |
TechnoSpikePrivate DetectivePosts : 581 Joined: 26 APR 2005 Location: PT Status : Offline |
I don't have a smiley for clapping hands, but I'm clapping to save the little buggers, Alkis! I fully agreed with you, Alkis! And you summed up pretty good what I feel about King's works. One of the things I like best in his stories is the way he can make a story seem pretty normal in the begining, with everything and everyone "behaving like real people in real places", and then the weirdness seems to start crawling slowly before it fully exposes itself... He is a great writer, and I think the best way he shows that is exactly when he writes in other style... more than once I have seen people amazed that it was him who wrote The Shawshank Redemption! For me, I wouldn't say he writes with the idea of pleasing a crowd. In my opinion, far from it... for me, that's the kind of writer the creator of that , that, bizarre thing called Twilight is....(I'm being biased and fully judgemental, I assume that and I'm fully aware of it: I haven't read any of her books - nor I intend to - and none of the movies - I'm vastly against the idea of wasting precious and scarce free time for "investing" on those movies, that's just the idea I've conceived from everything I've read / heard / watched of that kind of "phenomenon"... All of this is, of course, my opinion, and just my 2 cents... |
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| 2 MAY 2010 at 9:49pm | |
TechnoSpikePrivate DetectivePosts : 581 Joined: 26 APR 2005 Location: PT Status : Offline | Some of us read comic books/ cheap love stories/thrillers/ fantasy/horror even though we know it is not good literature. I hope you are not implying that comic books aren't capable of being good literature, Traveller! (insert finger-waving smiley here) |
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| 2 MAY 2010 at 10:42pm | |
FnordSchattenjger Posts : 2752 Joined: 15 SEP 2008 Location: SE, Stockholm Status : Offline | I've read a bit of king in my days (not a whole lot, mind you), and I have to agree with the people who say that the moves are better, in particular the ones that he did not have much to do with (like the original "the shining" movie). I'm simply not a big fan of his style of writing.I hope you are not implying that comic books aren't capable of being good literature, Traveller! (insert finger-waving smiley here) Indeed, in particular when you have such literary masterpieces such as deff squadron. (note: GW has released quite a few older comics for free on the internet, now that they have stopped doing them themselves, I as far as I know, this is one of them).
Current Let's Play: Crusader: No Remorse |
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| 3 MAY 2010 at 1:13pm | |
ArkadiaPrivate Detective Posts : 558 Joined: 1 JUN 2008 Status : Online | I certainly agree with the sentiment that King is a subtle genius, although in my opinion his consistency leaves something to be desired. He does indeed right some ridiculous stuff - being an aspiring horror writer myself, there is some stuff that seems fantastically scary in my head, but I know would seem ridiculous and fall flat if I wrote the prose down and asked others to read it. It seems on occasion he has a good mental concept but one that isn't sympathetic to the imaginations of others. Regarding King's movies - I don't think I've seen even half of them - The Shining, Storm of The Century, Rose Red, Kingdom Hospital, Carrie, Children of the Corn, Secret Window, The Mist, 1408, Dreamcatcher, IT - and I didn't like most of them. Mainly because in all possible cases I had read the books prior and felt the movies fell short in comparison. I'm surprised at how many of his stories are adapted into movies - King's books more than many authors don't seem to be movie-friendly material. They're often based on creatures and situations that look ridiculous in real life but are effectively scary within the dark confines of our imaginations. With regards to his actual writing - though his prose is perhaps not as elegant as other authors, he is one of the most effective writers I have ever read, particularly with regards to characterization. I think his true genius shines within his short stories. I collect short horror story anthologies and King easily has some of the mindblowingly best short stories I have read. If one disagrees, I humbly point them in the direction of his story 'The Raft' in his short story collection, 'Skeleton Crew'. Amaaazing. While I'll be the first to put King up on a (IMO rightfully deserved) pedestal, he has also written some of what I consider the worst books I've ever read. I've read all but 3 of his novels now, and there are a few that really drove me insane. 'Insomnia' comes to mind. Oh well, we are all entitled to our opinions |
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| 3 MAY 2010 at 2:32pm | |
AShadowWalkerPrivate DetectivePosts : 776 Joined: 6 AUG 2009 Status : Online | Originally Posted By Arkadia (3 MAY 2010 1:13pm) I disagree Arkadia; often the most bizarre and unrealistic stories can be well proposed, fleshed out and accepted depending on the type of story and genre of your writing. What may not work in one particular genre could work on another. Likewise you could just as well have a story where reason and sanity prevail on a particular plane of reality and then have a different genre, characters and rules apply on a different verse of existence and it is not too unrealistic to propose that different lines of thought, rules, and ideas could exists if you changed the location and storyline to another plane of reality in the same storyline. The one thing that would make this believable is that you must keep the rules that apply to each particular genre, location and existence consistent throughout the story. By creating the rules and basis for the differences, and keeping them exact to their location, you can make the story work. Perfect example: Harry Potter. Rowling created the rules whereby magic existed and how and why it was applied, as well as their strengths and shortcomings. She kept the stories according to the rules of the particular worlds that she described and that is why Harry Potter works as a work of fiction so well. |
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| 3 MAY 2010 at 3:39pm | |
Agustín CordesGuild Master Posts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | I kept reading King's books up until Bag Of Bones because I (foolishly) gave him chance after chance. Bag was the last straw though since I thought it was lame beyond words. After watching Dreamcatcher, I'm convinced that stopping reading King was the right thing to do. He insists on reusing the same themes and elements in all his books (as mentioned before, Dark Tower was the greatest exception). I mean, come on... even the most fervent fan has to admit that Dreamcatcher was IT retold. As for IT itself (tee-hee!), I thought the ending of the movie ranked among the most ridiculous ones ever. I thought to myself, surely it was a bad adaptation, the book has to be better... it always is... WRONG. IT is one of most nonsensical stories I've ever read... great 50 first pages or so, but then it downspirals into a vast territory of idiocy. How the kids need to have sex with Beverly in the sewers, for instance, to "gain power" feels more like a perverted fantasy of King instead of a reasonable plot device. And the explanation of the alien... it... bah!! Sorry folks, King is a bad writer. He manages to entertain but that's it. Peter Straub is more talented but uneven IMO. And Cliver Barker is way more original. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 3 MAY 2010 at 3:40pm | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | And Traveller, thank you for defending me, even if you don't like me anymore. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 3 MAY 2010 at 4:09pm | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Rael (3 MAY 2010 3:39pm) I'm just pretending not to like you, to cover up the fact that I do like you - er, I mean... [smiley=whistle.gif] ..anyway friends need to defend friends, don't they? |
| 3 MAY 2010 at 4:18pm | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (3 MAY 2010 4:09pm) But... but I thought we were MORE than friends... If you know what I MEAN. Because maybe I'm being too VAGUE... Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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