| 24 AUG 2009 at 11:47pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I think all deaths of drug addicts are constructed homicides. They happen with the consent of the victim. The laws do need to be changed to inhibit drug suppliers enabling addicts but to absolve MJ of all responsibility for his own demise is nonsense.
|
| 25 AUG 2009 at 12:33am |
MeghanIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 92
Joined: 15 DEC 2008
Status : Online | Yes, reading the article provided on Popeater, it seems he "demanded" the Propofol after he had all the other drugs. (Though I doubt I could trust what Popeater says)
So, it seems the doctor that gave him the drugs to help him sleep and Michael were both at fault. The doctor probably should have known if it was too much and declined, and Michael probably shouldn't have "demanded" the Propofol, because it seems he was becoming addicted to it.
To me, it's not really something I enjoy seeing in the news. It actually irritates me because of all the publicity he's getting. I've never really liked him, so it's sort of a waste of time/whatever in my eyes. But this is merely my own opinion.
I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks about him/what's happening.
I gave you everything to die with a smile, all you wanted was to live for a while&&you took everything but it left you empty&&you can't replace me, you can't.&&&&It's almost over and here we are, we're stuck inside this salted earth together.&&you'll pierce my lungs, my limbs go numb&&as my colors fade out, you watch me bleed.&&you watch me bleed.
|
| 25 AUG 2009 at 3:15am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | There's an old saying in England 'where's there's muck, there's brass'. Well the reverse is true too. Where there's money, so will the muck gather.... rich celebrities all seem to be surrounded by syncophants and suppliers and the parasites end up killing their meal ticket. MJ can join a long list.
|
| 25 AUG 2009 at 7:22am |
| Deleted User | You know, I don't wish drug addiction on anybody, but one day maybe all these people who are so unsympathetic towards addiction, will taste a piece of that bitter stick themselves. Beware, -you might develop something like chronic backache or arthritis, and resultantly become addicted to painkillers: how will that work?
Very easily something like this:"octor, I still have so much pain that I cannot sleep". Doctor will add a sleeping pill to the list of already quite strong painkillers. Soon patient is addicted to the sleeping aid. A person cannot help this. Your body gains a tolerance for such substances. So the patient goes back to the doctor: “Doctor, I still have pain, and I cannot sleep without those sleeping pills you gave me, and I’m starting to get panic attacks.” Doctor: “Oops! I think you’re starting to get addicted to these substances. Lets change you to an anxiolitic like Valium. But you can only use it for 10 days, mind! Patient returns after 12 days “Doctor, I really need more of that Valium stuff, I’m going nuts without it!” Plus I really need my sleeping pills/pain pills back as well!
Doctor: “Gngngngngn By the looks of things, we’re starting to build up a dependence cycle here…. Wait, let me send you for counselling for your anxiety…. Patient goes for counselling, but councelling takes a long time to sort out underlying anxiety, and it doesn’t really work if you anxiety is caused by public accusations/court cases made against you, and or performing arts tours where the entire worlds’ attention will be fixed upon you and your performance. It might help if part of your anxiety stems from the fact that you had a controlling, abusive father, and have severe self-image problems, but not instantly, in any case. You know that the drugs relieve your mental and physical torture immediately, so you decide to go to another doctor, who might be a bit more giving and forgiving of your shortcomings….
Who is to blame here? The pharmaceutical industry, for manufacturing drugs that can cause physical and emotional dependencies? The medical staff who prescribe these drugs? Or the patient who goes to consult a doctor because he has a chronic pain/ insomnia/ anxiety problem?
And before you pooh-pooh depression and anxiety disorders; think carefully. Think of those people who mourn for the loved ones that they had lost through suicide.
All I say is : "There, but for the grace of god/fate go I, and I thank my stars that I am lucky enough not to have fallen into a trap like that. "
I never liked Michael, and I'm not nuts about his music, though there are a few rather catchy songs in his repetoire. I don't know how true the kiddie rumors were, but it's pretty clear to me that Michael had been a tortured person; he had lived in his own little version of hell, and I cannot but help feeling sorry for him.
|
| 25 AUG 2009 at 7:55am |
| Deleted User | Just to add to the little "drug" rant I had above: I also blame the modern culture of "Quick fix". I myself had, for instance, hurt my back/neck quite badly in a car accident. Many doctors simply put you on pain killers and muscle relaxants instead of sending you for physio which adresses the root of the problem. Luckily I hate the feeling of being drugged so much that I would prefer to endure pain, and a friend advised me to rather consult a physiotherapist, which cured the neckache in the end. The physio also gave me range of movement excercises, which I would not have known about, had I simply drank the pills the doctor had prescribed for me.
Who do I blame? The academic curriculum for MD's. The approach is always a "quick-fix" one, not a "solve the root problem with a bit of self-application and patience" one. If you have insomnia, you ideally need to work on your sleeping habits and sleep cycle, look at your dietary habits, learn relaxation techniques, work in an excercise regimen into your daily routine, and perhaps go see a therapist/read books on cognitive therapy/go to yoga classes/whatever for possible underlying anxiety problems.
..but what does the MD do? He prescribes a course of Halcion or Valium or Zolpidem.
Ok, let me give you my biggest personal reason why it irks me when people always blame the patient. When my arms got burnt, the surgeon told the nurses to hit me with Morphine until I felt no pain anymore. The point at which I felt no more pain, was the point where I literally passed out. After three days of being fed liberal doses of Morhine, suddenly the Morphine was not forthcoming anymore. (By law, it's only allowed as a 3-day therapy when non-terminal patients are involved.) In spite of me telling you earlier that I hate the feeling of being "drugged" (which is why I never have too much alcohol, btw.), at this point in time, I really craved the feeling of that Morphine so much, that I started pleading for just one more shot. I actually became verbally abusive towards the nurses when they refused. Yes, friendly, polite little me, actually started sh***ing on the nurses because they were being so "cruel" towards me.
Guess what. Physical dependence on mind-altering drugs does make you irrational. :-/ And it's not always by a fault of your own, that they were administered to you in the first place. Ask the WW1 & 2 war veterans who were fed Morphine because of their war wounds.
|
| 25 AUG 2009 at 9:40am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I forget about your burns. What a terrible injury. When you mention it, your harrowing account comes flooding back to me. :-*
However, MJ has followed a well-trodden path. I really loved Elvis's voice and was most indignant that his cronies and hangers-on let him die through bad living and in fact supplied him the means to destroy himself. There is a pattern and I think, where rich and famous people are concerned.
The doctor who injected him with profolol (sp?) should be made to answer for his actions. He knew what he was doing was very wrong, very risky and he left his patient unatteded. Possibly MJ had another supplier of drugs and so the doctor can't be held accountable for his death caused by drugs he didn't prescribe.
But ultimately, we are all responsible for our own decisions and actions.
|
| 25 AUG 2009 at 10:44am |
| Deleted User | [font=Times New Roman][size=16] Whether MJ died as a result of his own negligence or his physicians or both is of no interest to me whatsoever and quite frankly is pretty well immaterial !.
IMO it is only the media (and the Jackson family) who, to earn as much cash as possible, are whipping up as much publicity as they can.
“Money makes the world go around ……” !
I understand that most pop idols are on drugs and are even encouraged to do so ?!? --- some less and under control, and others more addicted and not a few fatally so !
It seems that modern society cannot do without its pop idols.
MJ was IMO an accomplished dancer and a so so singer. That he attracted millions of groupies is not surprising. Same with Elvis and before him Sinatra.
They were all excellent entertainers --- but no more --- and certainly no Gods.
Their names, performances, media articles, magazine gossips, etc., etc. brought in millions to very many people.
Their REAL “worth”... not all that much; and will be forgotten in a decade or two !
BTW :- In a week’s time, Madonna is giving 2 performances here (In Tel Aviv) to end her present tour apparently !
|
| 25 AUG 2009 at 10:52pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I can't like Madonna at all. I think she's got her values all screwed up - especially when it comes to parenting and the role fathers have in her children's lives. [smiley=thumbsdown.gif]
|
| 25 AUG 2009 at 11:04pm |
| Deleted User | [size=16][font=Times New Roman]I'm not thrilled either !
But I know somebody (fortiyish+) with whom I am very greatly frienldy and who I enormously respect who absolutely adores Madonna and goes to every performance he possibly can !!
And he's a brilliant & very accomplished guy !! [smiley=crazy.gif]
Diff'rent strokes etc.
|
| 2 SEP 2009 at 10:36pm |
| Deleted User | ~~ Caroline ~~ … I can't like Madonna at all. I think she's got her values all screwed up - especially when it comes to parenting and the role fathers have in her children's lives.
[size=16][font=Times New Roman] Is her “parentimng” (3 children I believe) etc. any worse than that of any other mega-star or top celebrity who is always in the limelight 24-7 & stalked night & day by hundreds of paparazzi etc. ??
She is exactly the age of the youngest of our 3 children, and obviously her songs, dance, routine, style, and so on are not in the slightest of my generation’s comprehension or liking. But apparently for her age group (34 years younger than myself) and younger, she is quite an idol !!
Some of my younger grandchildren (the oldest is 32 y.o.) love her !!!
By KARIN LAUB, Associated Press Writer Karin Laub, Associated Press Writer – Wed Sep 2, 2:12 am ET TEL AVIV, Israel –
[font=Times New Roman][size=16]Madonna wrapping up world tour in Israel - Yahoo! News
Madonna brought her mix of provocative music and spirituality to the Holy Land with a concert Tuesday in front of 50,000 fans who had endured a 16-year wait since the pop icon's last gig in Israel.
Madonna is wrapping up her worldwide "Sticky & Sweet" tour with two concerts this week in a country whose place at the heart of the Mideast conflict has made it more of a magnet for diplomats than big-name performers.
Madonna took the stage about a half hour late Tuesday night, opening with her 2008 single, "Candy Shop" and moving through a tightly choreographed performance that included a series of colorful costumes — beginning with a skimpy, black body suit with fishnet stockings and knee-high boots — and a range of hits, new and old.
"I shouldn't have stayed so long away," she told the adoring crowd midway through the show, as she broke away from the script to express her affection for the country.
"Every time I come here, I get so supercharged with energy," she said. "I truly believe that Israel is the energy center of the world. And I also believe that if we can all live together in harmony in this place, then we can live in peace all over the world."
And Madonna thrilled her fans with an extra special treat, bringing on her 12-year-old daughter Lourdes after she had finished her energetic routine to Give It 2 Me.
The youngster, who features in the video to her famous mum's new track Celebration, and the Queen of Pop also wore matching outfits of black trousers and vest tops, and both donned a pair of black-framed geek-style glasses.
The 51-year-old entertainer has long claimed a special bond with the Jewish state.
She's been dabbling in Kabbalah, a particularly minority form of Jewish mysticism, for more than a decade and has taken on a Hebrew name, Esther. She's come on private pilgrimages in recent years. She has visited the Jewish holy site at the Western Wall in Jerusalem since arriving in Israel on Sunday.
During a rousing finale of Give it 2 Me, Madonna wrapped an Israeli flag around herself and paraded around the stage.
Madonna was scheduled to perform again on Wednesday at Tel Aviv's Hayarkon Park, the same outdoor site as Tuesday's show.
"One of the reasons she attracts such large crowds is that she has a special connection to Israel," said Chen Shasha, a 24-year-old law student attending the concert. "Israelis appreciate the fact that someone appreciates them and approaches them and is willing to look into things such as Kabbalah."
|
