| 29 JAN 2010 at 8:18am |
MaumPrivate Detective
Posts : 595
Joined: 2 JUN 2007
Location: UK
Status : Offline | I agree about the Hardacre thing. It definitely seemed off, and H didn't seem to remember the previous night's conversation when Nigel speaks to him in the cavern the next day.
btw hadn't seen this thread so will re-post what I originally posted in the Hot Spot thread.
I personally loved the ending. It was very left field and unexpected but I didn't mind at all!
Not sure what my theory about Saxton is- when Nigel returns the crown at the end and all the townspeople (dead and alive) are there as witnesses I really thought they were all ghosts and Nigel was going to wake up in a deserted B & B somewhere having imagined the whole thing.
Of course seeing Lucy at the end killed that theory but it's interesting that we don't see the town or anyone else aside from her.
I can't believe they were all real- there were too many references, particularly about Nanny Noah and Bob- comments about them having lived in Saxton forever, being old souls etc. It was all too weird.
Hadn't really thought about time warps (I guess I had ghosts in mind) but that would make a lot of sense, particularly as far as the Karswell are concerned. And what about the Northfield church priest? Isn't there an article in the paper that Nigel gets on 2 May about the priest having died 2 weeks before?
The biggest highlight was finding the paper in the museum toilet- and reading not only the article about the Karswell's death, but the fact that Hadden enterprises had installed the new interactive screens in the museum. That was THE sh************t! moment of the game for me.
2 main questions though- why were the Agers so reviled by the townspeople? If they were ultimately protecting the crown they should ultimately (despite their despicable actions) have had the town's blessing.
And my main concern- who took the pictures in the Nightmare Room? If Gruel was the catnapper and the one sending the anonymous letters to Nigel I assumed he was the stalker. But some of the photos on the board showed Nigel on the train- there is no way Gruel could have been the one taking those. Were they sent to him by Hadden? Or did Hadden actually set up the room?
Oh I just remembered something else. If Christina was poisoned by the cottage waters, how come Edward (who arrived to Saxton before her) wasn't affected?
So many questions.... I like it. Grin
PS Nancy and Timmy made me cry.
Currently playing: Dragon Age Origins, Dishonored, The Witcher, Fallout 3, Deponia
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| 29 JAN 2010 at 9:48am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By maum (29 JAN 2010 8:17am)
I agree about the Hardacre thing. It definitely seemed off, and H didn't seem to remember the previous night's conversation when Nigel speaks to him in the cavern the next day.
I read somewhere on Jonathan's blog that the Hardacre (that faded away) that he spoke to that night was not the "real" Hardacre, but a ghost who had kind of "time-warped" from the future, and this is the reason why the real Hardacre, who was still alive, had no recollection the next day, of seeing Jonathan the night before.
I see Jehane had already worked that one out.
PS Nancy and Timmy made me cry. Yes, I also pecked away a tear for that whole scenario. :-/
Regarding why Nigel is not afraid of ghosts, but of other phenomena that can actually harm him: Well, firstly, seeing that Jon did all of this himself, perhaps he's not yet very strong on portraying facial expressions and body language; but also, Nigel is, after all, a ghost-hunter.
It would probably be a bit silly to have a person deliberately seeking out ghosts, feel terror for them. I agree though, that he could at least have appeared to be just a little afraid...
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| 4 FEB 2010 at 11:15pm |
JehaneSpace Cadet
Posts : 128
Joined: 15 MAY 2007
Status : Online | Originally Posted By maum (29 JAN 2010 8:17am)
2 main questions though- why were the Agers so reviled by the townspeople? If they were ultimately protecting the crown they should ultimately (despite their despicable actions) have had the town's blessing.
And my main concern- who took the pictures in the Nightmare Room? If Gruel was the catnapper and the one sending the anonymous letters to Nigel I assumed he was the stalker. But some of the photos on the board showed Nigel on the train- there is no way Gruel could have been the one taking those. Were they sent to him by Hadden? Or did Hadden actually set up the room?
Oh I just remembered something else. If Christina was poisoned by the cottage waters, how come Edward (who arrived to Saxton before her) wasn't affected?
Good questions. As for the Agers, I think despite them protecting the crown they were considered to be very, very evil - remember the picture showing all four of them even they lived in different times? Maybe they had found a way to work around time or to prolong their lives... on second thoughts, that wouldn't make much sense since the last one (William, I think) died at a very young age. Hm. Maybe they were just pictured as being evil because the game needed a bunch of villains? I'm still in the middle of replaying the game, maybe I can come up with a better explanation
As for the pictures in the Nightmare Room: I think Hadden is behind this, simply because he has the technology. Remember, he already knows where Nigel will be going in the opening sequence, and when Nigel calls him he isn't surprised that Nigel ended up in Saxton, quite to the contrary. So I think he does have the technology to spy on Nigel. But the question remains who put up the pictures in the Nightmare Room - no one except Gruel seems to have entered that room before Nigel eventually gets there :-?
As for Christina: That's a really good question. I'm not that far into the game and it's been a while since I played, but do we know for sure that the water poisoned her or is this just an explanation her husband came up with?
@Traveller: Oh man, I'm so proud my theory about Hardacre is right and that Jonathan himself confirmed it on his blog Now we just need to solve the mystery of the six Hardacres that lead Nigel into the cellar *g* And I still haven't figured out who the third ghost in Nigel's room might be - the guy on the picture taken during the night. However, I haven't reached that point in the game yet, maybe it'll become clearer when I do - I read somewhere that the third guy could actually be the gravedigger, Russet. Doesn't make much sense to me but on the other hand, many things in TLC don't make much sense
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| 5 FEB 2010 at 12:33am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By maum (29 JAN 2010 8:17am)
Oh I just remembered something else. If Christina was poisoned by the cottage waters, how come Edward (who arrived to Saxton before her) wasn't affected?
That's no mystery. Edward was always going away on trips and was often away from the house even when he wasn't on a trip. Christine was in the house all day long, drinking the poisoned water, drinking tea made with the poisoned water, washing in the poisoned water, etc. So of course the poisoned water got her first. She was exposed to it much more than Edward was.
Besides that, I had the impression that the poisoned water eventually got him too, ultimately affecting his mental state and his actions.
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| 5 FEB 2010 at 2:08pm |
MaumPrivate Detective
Posts : 595
Joined: 2 JUN 2007
Location: UK
Status : Offline | By Edward's account Christina gets sick very quickly and has very dramatic cancer-like symptoms.
I can't believe he wouldn't show any of the same symptoms.
When you mention his mental state being affected, aside from his suicide I don't see any more than concern for his wife in his journals. She's the one who thinks he might be behind her illness- he just seem desperate to help her, and then when he finds the secret room after her death distraught to the point of suicide.
I still think her death is very mysterious.
Currently playing: Dragon Age Origins, Dishonored, The Witcher, Fallout 3, Deponia
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| 5 FEB 2010 at 7:25pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Long term exposure to low levels of toxins doesn't affect everyone equally and you may not see symptoms until the buildup of toxins reaches a certain threshhold in the body. Also it was pretty clear to me that Christina was getting more exposure to the toxins than her husband. Think about how much time Edward was actually spending at the house compared to Christina.
Christina's paranoia about believing her husband was poisoning her and Edward's reaction at finding the cause of her illness were probably both influenced by their exposure to the toxin. I think the mystery was cleared up when we found what was in the secret room because low-level poisoning over time can produce those symptoms.
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| 13 MAR 2010 at 6:10am |
ChumIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 1
Joined: 13 MAR 2010
Status : Online | hello...I am new to these forums, so bear with me. After playing this game I have one question. When Nigel finds Mr. Tibbs is he a ghost too?
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| 13 MAR 2010 at 3:01pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | No, Mr. Tibbs was not a ghost . The bigger question is whether anyone in the game was real or just simulated or all ghosts caught in a time warp.
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| 24 APR 2010 at 3:37pm |
JehaneSpace Cadet
Posts : 128
Joined: 15 MAY 2007
Status : Online | Ok, I'm still in the middle of replaying TLC and have now reached Ulcombe Church; during the last two days, I played the sections starting in the nethouse, ending up on May Day after Nigel has discovered the church via the telescope. And guess what: I have even more questions than before Here are some observations I've made while playing (I'll embolden some catch phrases for an easier read since this has become quite a long entry):
- Nanny Noah warns Nigel not to trust Lucy. Why? Lucy proves a friend in the end, there's no hint of betrayal as far as I can see. Could this be a hint to Nigel and Lucy's future, will Lucy be doing something evil to him in the sequel?
- "Tasseology" provides Nigel with some clues; again, he's being warned, the cat-shape symbolises false friends. I still haven't figured out who those false friends might be because in the end almost everybody has turned away from Nigel after he has found the crown.
- Before returning to the cottage, Nigel has a chat with Bob Tawny who at some point states: "She's coming. Bright and lovely." Now it would be quite obvious that he's talking about the sun but I don't buy it, especially since the next day (May Day) when he's talking to Nigel he advises him to "find her". Who? Lucy? Nanny Noah? Someone entirely different? Tawny also says that "the pale moon, the pale gold lady has come amongst us" - now, the moon is pale but not golden, and pale and golden just don't go together. Also, I don't believe he's actually referring to the moon or the sun but maybe a celtic goddess?
- Why is Nigel in the portrait with the Ager brothers? Because he's looking for the crown and people will not trust him after he has found it?
- A crucial sequence was the one with Nigel becoming translucent. I don't think this was a dream. Nigel states: "There's something wrong with time... no substance... no time." Now this, I believe, confirms all the timewarp-theories people have made up. Also, I think that maybe Nigel himself could be some kind of ghost - he might be caught in a timewarp himself and his future self returns to Saxton as a ghost. Ahem. Don't know if I've made myself clear, it's a bit difficult to explain. However, I think that this sequence proves that time is messed up in and around Saxton. And even though I do not have any evidence, I believe that this is not another dream sequence but "real".
- The three guys surrounding Nigel's bed on the picture taken during the night has been bothering me for months. It still does. I took a closer look at it yesterday when playing that sequence and am convinced that these are no Agers at all. First of all, there can't be three of them because two have already been exorcised. Secondly, look at them closely. They all look the same and have some kind of handkerchief covering their mouths which, to me, is proof that these figures are not Agers but Mr. Russett, the gravedigger - someone has come up with the idea that at least one of those three figures is Russett before; I'd go further and suggest that ALL three figures surrounding Nigel's bed are impersonating Russett. I just don't have the slightest clue why that should be so - ok, let's say Russett is also a ghost, that wouldn't be a big surprise, right? But why triplets? It's the same with the six Hardacres leading Nigel down into the cellar towards the end of the game - it just doesn't make sense. Or is this just another timewarp we're dealing with?
- Evil which lives within the walls: Nigel captures this sentence via the surveillance cameras he has installed in the cottage. Shortly after, he finds Monlina's diary stating that Christina has died from poisoned water - could this be the "evil which lives within the walls"? Also, why are there two diaries? Remember: We find one diary in the kitchen; the last entry is dated April 29th, 1952, followed by empty pages. The second diary can be found in the cellar; the entry is dated May 1st, 1952. Now why on earth would someone start a new diary even though the old one hasn't been filled yet? Or is this just a device Jonathan came up with to make the game even more interesting, to offer us clues bit by bit and not in a bunch? Also, Christina died the night before Beltane - I don't think this is just a coincidence.
- The article about the catnapper states that "two local youths" have provided the police with vital clues so the police could find the nightmare room in the nethouse. Ok, journalists tend to exaggerate and twist facts if it helps a story along but I don't think this is the case here. Now why would anybody refer to both Nigel and Lucy as "local youths"? Ok, I can see why Lucy might be referred to as a "local youth" since she was born and raised in Saxton. But Nigel is neither a local nor is he a youth even though everybody keeps calling him "lad" and "boy" - which, of course, makes sense insofar as most of the people he deals with are much older than he is and if they're also ghosts, they've been around for a long time, decades or even centuries so a man in his early thirties might still seem young to them. But it doesn't make sense in the newspaper's article. Any ideas on this one?
I must admit that when starting the replay I was convinced I'd find some answers to questions that had popped up after finishing TLC for the first time. Instead, there are even more questions; I'd love to hear your opinions
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| 13 OCT 2010 at 6:18pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Bump
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 14 OCT 2010 at 6:28pm |
semihSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 209
Joined: 25 OCT 2009
Status : Online | Is there going to be a second game?
This seems unreasonable.
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| 14 OCT 2010 at 11:13pm |
DonaJourneyman
Posts : 801
Joined: 19 MAR 2005
Status : Offline | It's in the making, apparently.
I'd like a second game. I really, really loved the first one <3
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| 15 OCT 2010 at 6:53pm |
loobilooPrivate Detective
Posts : 598
Joined: 3 APR 2008
Location: UK
Status : Offline | I hope the second will be as engaging as the 1st but more importantly I hope it makes some sense of the 1st!
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| 15 OCT 2010 at 7:01pm |
semihSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 209
Joined: 25 OCT 2009
Status : Online | First game was very easy. I hope second one will contain thougher ones
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| 15 OCT 2010 at 7:13pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Yes, like I'd mentioned in the thread that you started, semih, it's called The Last Crown.
Here's a link with info from the developer. http://www.thelastcrown.com/
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 15 OCT 2010 at 7:31pm |
loobilooPrivate Detective
Posts : 598
Joined: 3 APR 2008
Location: UK
Status : Offline | Thanks for the link Traveller -I'm not too hopeful now about not being as baffled with The last Crown as I was with The Lost Crown! [smiley=laughing.gif]
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| 16 OCT 2010 at 6:50am |
semihSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 209
Joined: 25 OCT 2009
Status : Online | "It is a direct sequel to The Lost Crown, set in the town of Saxton, but exploring new areas and a new story." says Jonatham Boakes for Lost Crown 2.
But first game seemed to me unfinished and all the characters were puppets.So we will continue to play as a puppet or a clone.On reaching the conclusion I was then very disappointed at the lack of any clarification of what the whole story was about. I don't mind an ambiguous ending that makes you think - but felt cheated & annoyed with a story that had numerous plot holes that weren't tied up!
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| 17 OCT 2010 at 2:19am |
DonaJourneyman
Posts : 801
Joined: 19 MAR 2005
Status : Offline | Yeah. When I think of bad sides of TLC, I think "plot holes" and "Jemima".
I hope they fill the plotholes in the sequel and give a bit more soul to characters.
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| 17 OCT 2010 at 7:34am |
semihSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 209
Joined: 25 OCT 2009
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Donna (17 OCT 2010 2:19am)
Yeah. When I think of bad sides of TLC, I think "plot holes" and "Jemima".
I hope they fill the plotholes in the sequel and give a bit more soul to characters.
I hope so.
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| 24 OCT 2010 at 5:43pm |
semihSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 209
Joined: 25 OCT 2009
Status : Online | Nigel Danvers was dead in Dark Fall. In Lost Crown he is a computer clone. Maybe Dark Fall was a cyber world.
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| 25 OCT 2010 at 7:00am |
BrianSpace Cadet
Posts : 117
Joined: 28 SEP 2010
Status : Offline | Or another argument that Dark Fall's ending really did undo everything that had happened.
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| 6 NOV 2010 at 8:10pm |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By panter (6 NOV 2010 5:58pm)
Accrording to Darkling room "last crown " is a new game. This is what they say about it " It is a direct sequel to The Lost Crown, set in the town of Saxton, but exploring new areas and a new story."
Then what happened in the end of "Lost Crown"? "Lost Crown " was an unfinished game.
Hmm, on his blog and elsewhere, Jonathan has steadfastly refused to spell out exactly what really hapens in TLC, other than the piece he wrote about his idea of there being places in the fabric of reality where time becomes inconsistent, and where the past and future intermingles.
He very deliberately, in the game itself, gives clues that you visit places as they had been years ago, and talked to people who had since died.
..but I can agree with your criticism of that he had left things rather too 'unexplained' regarding the status of Nigel himself, and Lucy. I'm not too sure what's the deal with Lucy...
Regarding the ending, the ending had felt pretty final enough to me as far as the Lost Crown was concerned, though. What needed to have been laid to rest, was done at the end, and all necessary exorcisms had been done.
It's just exactly what had happened in this whole story, to Nigel and who Nigel (and actually Lucy too) actually is, that I'm not so sure of.
It is as if there are 2 or 3 or more stories running concurrently
A) is the whole thing with Nigel and Hadden and with Lucy and Nigel and how Lucy fits in with the Hadden corporation, and how Nigel actually got to Saxton, and what he was supposed to do there, or not.
B) is the story of the town of Saxton and a lot of the different people who had lived there's stories. There are quite a few little stories interwoven there.
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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| 6 NOV 2010 at 10:39pm |
DonaJourneyman
Posts : 801
Joined: 19 MAR 2005
Status : Offline | (I'm going to continue here from that other thread...)
Originally Posted By placeholder (6 NOV 2010 7:56pm)
I personally found the game too long, actually. In which sense did you find it too rushed, Donna? o you mean that the whole thing was so long and involved, that you felt he left out something somewhere because the game possibly stretched out longer than he had initially planned for it to be? Hmmm..
Actually, I didn't find the game that long! It's hard to explain. It was long, but at the same time, it wasn't. I enjoyed the atmosphere a lot.
The ending - the whole deal with the crown - was OK. Nothing more to add. However, there was that plot with Nigel working for Hadden that made no sense because they never explained the role of Hadden Industries, who they are, what they do, why they do it etc. It's like it was there for the sake of added mystery and it was just annoying.
Lucy was pretty random.
Then there was that odd mini sub-plot with Jemima and whatshisface that made very little sense.
Also, I couldn't get into Nigel's character at all. His voice was horrid (sorry, Jonathan), he had no personality and seemed too calm in most situations. I don't know whether it was intentional or not, but there was nothing to back up his behaviour.
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| 7 NOV 2010 at 7:52am |
TravellerGuild Master
Posts : 4040
Joined: 3 JUL 2010
Location: US
Status : Offline | I've re-read part of this thread again, and it really is an interesting thread. Worth re-reading .
Posted by: Dona Posted on: Yesterday at 6:39pm
Also, I couldn't get into Nigel's character at all. His voice was horrid (sorry, Jonathan), he had no personality and seemed too calm in most situations. I don't know whether it was intentional or not, but there was nothing to back up his behaviour.
Yeah, like we'd said on page 3 of this thread, regarding stuff I'd read on Jonathan's blog, Jonathan expained himself regarding the the 'voice' issue:
.and here people are actually egging him on with the notorious "anverspeak" that the rest of us have so bitterly complained about...
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8889343285152617254&postID=561532778728...
Jonathan's take:
As for Nigel...he is popping up in the new games, complete with Danverspeak™. I based Nigel's voice on the old, black and white horrors, of the 30's and 40's, where everyone spoke in a very specific way...kind of stunted, and over actor-ish. The performances in Sapphire & Steel (a TV fave from the 80's) are also very similar (doubters should re-check Adventure 2's Tully, or Adventure 5's Dinner Party. Cripes!). I guess it's a style, and as a style it has successes and failings.
I like to think of The Lost Crown as a homage, and an exploration of English Ghost-Stories, both written and broadcast. It would have been sad to exclude some of the trappings, and style, of those old works, for the sake of fashion, or trying to sound gamey.
I actually went to all the trouble of registering on his blog, and posting a comment that a lot of people actually do not like "anverspeak", and asking him nicely to not utilise it in DF3, but he did not "approve" my post, and therefore it did not publicly see the light of day.
So yeah, Donna, I guess he was trying to copy the acting from those black and white movies from the 1930's/40.
No idea why; it doesn't work for me either.... [smiley=shrug.gif]
* * * Just call me Trav. * * *
“Despite my ghoulish reputation, I really have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.” - Robert Bloch
"They are not reciprocally sublated--the one does not sublate the other externally--but each sublates itself in itself and is in its own self the opposite of itself" (Hegel, from The Doctrine of Being)..."
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