| 15 SEP 2008 at 6:19pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Surely an adventure gamer of all people should know the draw of "different" sorts of games? I bet people think adventures are pretty pointless since you don't get to shoot, but we all know thats bogus.
Spore's draw is that it's a sim. It appeals to sim lovers (Sim City, The Sims, etc). It's actually got a large amount of customization and charm. It's very fun. Personally, however, I'm not an RTS fan and the RTS stages don't appeal to me much. I get overwhelmed too quickly for my taste.
However it's really hard to explain until you try it. Creatures are downloaded and fill your game randomly, so every new game you'll meet very weird and different creatures. If you have a friends list they'll even be your buddy's races.
It's very unique. Just because it doesn't have an end boss or cutscene doesn't take away from it's "point".
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| 15 SEP 2008 at 6:22pm |
FnordSchattenjger
Posts : 2752
Joined: 15 SEP 2008
Location: SE, Stockholm
Status : Offline | Well, the thing about spore (with the exception of the stupid max 3activations DRM (if i had known about that, i would never have bought the game)) is that it does not live up to what they promised us.
What they told us that we would get were a game where we would be able to create oure own creatures, let them evolve into whatever we wanted, and conquer a galaxy populated by creatures that other people had created.
While this is in theory true, the gameplay part does not hold up. None of the 5 parts are particularly fun. The first part is a super simplistic arcade game, the 2nd part is pure grind (think grinding gold in WoW), the 3rd part is a very simplistic RTS, the 4th part is also a very simplistic RTS, but without any charm, the 5th part is a space exploration game that lacks any real gameplay value.
The only thing that was fun in the game was the creature creator.. and you can download that one for free!
The game also has some really stupid design choices, that punishes you for wanting to create the creature of your dreams. You have a set ammount of DNA points, and with that you are suposed to build a creature. Each part gives a bonus to a stat. The problem is that the bonuses dont stack, which means that if you want to create a creature coverd in feathers, you will cripple your creature, as it wont get high enought stats in other fields.
So, instead of a solid game, you get 5 really poor games, with a fun creature creator.
I was one of those who waited for the game, who thought that it would be fantastic... i was one of those who got disapointed.
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 1:48am |
Randy-JAJourneyman
Posts : 1351
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | whew! I thought it was just me. I don't 'get' this game either and don't understand even a little bit why it is so popular. I'm sure it appeals to a lot of people, but the hype over it just shot off into the stratosphere.
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 3:04am |
An_InklingSpace Cadet
Posts : 171
Joined: 20 JUN 2008
Status : Online | Most of the initial hype during its development was due it being the next game from Will Wright, creator of mega-hit The Sims.
Other than that, it definitely is an interesting concept. The game itself, as is, does not interest me overly much though. It is possible that expansions which flesh out the gameplay may alter this view.
Who is this great burdensome slavering dog-thing that mediocres my every thought? ([i]Nick Cave - We Call Upon the Author[/i])
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 5:28am |
PoyntenklikSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 201
Joined: 25 AUG 2005
Status : Online | If it aint got a beginning, middle and an ending, and no puzzles, it's no good in my book I kind of get the appeal of all genres, including sims, strategy and RPG, but they don't appeal to me. I don't really like games where there are endless combinations, I need to be in a fairly linear situation where only one solution will let me progress. Only thing that appeals to me in medium doses outside of pure adventures is action-adventures and shoot'em ups, I'm talking Tomb Raider and Doom3.
I have also heard that spore is a bit of a let down. I remember seeing a promo video ages ago where the creator of the game invited Robin Williams ( yes, THE Robin Williams ) to have a go at the game in front of an audience. That in itself built up people's hopes even more and really drove the hype.
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 9:54am |
Steve VSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 265
Joined: 16 MAR 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By avatar_58 (15 SEP 2008 6:19pm)
Surely an adventure gamer of all people should know the draw of "different" sorts of games? I bet people think adventures are pretty pointless since you don't get to shoot, but we all know thats bogus.
Spore's draw is that it's a sim. It appeals to sim lovers (Sim City, The Sims, etc). It's actually got a large amount of customization and charm. It's very fun. Personally, however, I'm not an RTS fan and the RTS stages don't appeal to me much. I get overwhelmed too quickly for my taste.
However it's really hard to explain until you try it. Creatures are downloaded and fill your game randomly, so every new game you'll meet very weird and different creatures. If you have a friends list they'll even be your buddy's races.
It's very unique. Just because it doesn't have an end boss or cutscene doesn't take away from it's "point".
It seems to me like they bolted on too many different genres into a single game, personally I enjoy 'human' god games like CIV and Age of Empires, but I have zero interest in The Sims or any of its clones, the final part seems lke an endless version of something like X3: Reunion
Basically this is Black and White meets Sim City meets Command and Conquer meets Age of Empires meets Galactic Civilisations 2?
Sometimes trying to please everybody you end up pleasing nobody, however there ARE 80 plus 5 star reviews on Amazon to be fair, not all of which appear to be from 'customers' related to the developer or publisher
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 3:42pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | I would use Metacritic instead. The amazon page was attacked by a group of folks looking to do it harm. Since Amazon doesn't limit comments to paying customers, it was abused. Personally I think thats a major mistake on their part.
Spore isn't what it's hyped up to be, but what game is? It's just a fun interesting title that appeals to casual gamers. Casual AAA titles tend to get overblown in the media, that's just how it is. Just wait till the Sims 3 gets closer.
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 4:12pm |
Steve VSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 265
Joined: 16 MAR 2008
Status : Online | Avatar, I had a look at the metacritic page for Spore, Critics ratings from 44 sites averages 86 out of 100. User rating from 769 responses averages 48 out of 100. Normally such a discrepancy I would put down to what you suggest happened at Amazon, a concerted and organised 'attack' to protest against EA and the DRM issue.
Having waded through about 100 of those user comments I have to say that the DRM is not the issue, most critical views seem to revolve around the opinion that (like Fnord in this thread) the game has been substantially 'dumbed down' from what appeared to be promised a couple of years ago. This has lead people to believe that EA will drip feed the 'missing' elements in regular (and expensive) expansion packs.
In this case it looks like the 'critics' have deliberately over rated the game in order to maintain their good relations with EA, they must have been aware that it doesn't live up to the hype and is essentially a bust for serious gamers.
If I had to pick out the one recurring theme from those user comments it would be how often the word 'shallow' pops up.
OTOH, I still don't understand why people rush to buy something or pre-order it before they get to play a demo or see what other players have to say about it..
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| 16 SEP 2008 at 5:00pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | I can't imagine how a Spore demo would work. We had the creature creator, but that didn't show you much. In fact it sold me on the game before I had known what each stage would really be like.
For a game like Spore you literally need to play it to get an idea. Each stage is very simplistic in nature, but what one person finds fun another will hate. Most players will find a stage they don't like (mine being the Civ one) and thats just how it is.
If I had to rate this game I'd say it's "okay". Nothing too special, but definately worth checking out at least once. People claim it gets boring on the second time through, but I mean really - the average game doesn't last 6-10 hours anyway these days so whats the difference. The main source of enjoyment to me is seeing the new creatures downloaded and making my own. Not so much the world domination thing.
The game is dumbed down because it was too ambitious. That's Will Wright. He has a lot of good ideas, but really - not all of them are implemented. Unfortunately for him he works with EA, which usually results in simplicity and sales as opposed to a quality product.
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| 29 SEP 2008 at 6:36pm |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2539
Joined: 28 APR 2007
Location: US
Status : Offline | I am afraid it is a YAWN...spore bore.....and a sign that current game devel is in a slumpy time.....
NOT a great idea, ...tho well carried out and certainly NOT a brilliant new way to go in my humble opinon.
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| 29 SEP 2008 at 7:04pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By CrisGer (29 SEP 2008 6:36pm)
I am afraid it is a YAWN...spore bore.....and a sign that current game devel is in a slumpy time.....
NOT a great idea, ...tho well carreid, out and certainly NOT a brilliant new way to go. Sorry. There are much better ways to spend the time and effort and hopefully this will seal the sims into a niche that they can happily inhabit and other things can happen.
I don't know how you can say that. The simulation genre has just as much of a right to exist as adventure games do - same with fps, rpgs and strategy games. I don't understand why it's such a sore point with gamers when they don't personally enjoy them.
Is Spore that great? Not really, but don't condemn the whole genre or concept just because it fell flat.
I find it very strange that this kind of attitude would come from an adventure game forum of all places. You guys should know better, given the relatively bad attitude the rest of the gaming industry shows towards your genre of choice. Just reverse it and think how the Sims folks feel. It's not their fault the genre is popular and well loved, thats hardly the fault of the individual games.
The sims and Sim City, for example, are two very amazing titles to come from this genre. I'm glad Will Wright tried something different with Spore. It wasn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, but so what? He'll bounce back and make something better. The Sims 3 might not seem like a major risk to you, but it allows him to convince EAgames to publish another risky game.
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| 29 SEP 2008 at 7:43pm |
CrisGerSchattenjger
Posts : 2539
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Location: US
Status : Offline | Sorry did not mean to dismiss all sims....wrote that poorly for I too enjoy many of them and think they are quite interesting. I was refering to the SIM focus on total life replacment in principle which is a niche that i have questions about for many reasons far beyond the scope of this topic.......... sorry about that..... will amend previous post.
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| 29 SEP 2008 at 8:26pm |
| Deleted User | I find the EA series called "The Sims" too boring to bear, but I do like sims in general, especially city builders, economic or political sims, and space sims.
Usually most sims I play are quite cerebral and hectic, and I suppose I was expecting something rather different from Spore. I don't think I had expected little arcade levels that are so tedious that you need to call the nearest 4 year old to click through it for you, because it is so boring. And yet a 4-year old couldn't do the entire level for you, as there are upgrades to be chosen)
I would have preferred pure creation, sans the arcade - style clicking action.
Somehow it seems to me an idea with great potential that sounds facinating in the abstract, but is tedious in execution.
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| 30 SEP 2008 at 5:30pm |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman
Posts : 1317
Joined: 15 JAN 2008
Location: GR
Status : Offline | space sims.
[total nerd mode on]
Actually, that particular genre of games is misnamed, as there is no real life deep space manned exploration/colonization to be "simulated"
[total nerd mode off]
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| 30 SEP 2008 at 5:40pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By nik2008ofs (30 SEP 2008 5:29pm)
space sims.
[total nerd mode on]
Actually, that particular genre of games is misnamed, as there is no real life deep space manned exploration/colonization to be "simulated"
[total nerd mode off]
Hm. Need to boost the post count a bit, nik?
Ok, then I'll take the bait and debate you on that. [smiley=devil_smiley_grintail.gif]
I postulate that in order to simulate something, the object of your simulation can be literally anything, such as the future possible manning/exploration/colonization of space.
This has already been done in books and movies, so you will be simulating the worlds/systems/realities already created in popular fiction.
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| 30 SEP 2008 at 5:45pm |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
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Location: 0
Status : Offline | Similarly, NASA simulated moon landings before they had actually done it (assuming, of course, that you believe they did indeed do it ). Granted in that case there was a working vehicle which was being built, but the point is that Traveler is correct: one needn't simulate reality to simulate.
Ultimately, though, most games described as simlators are more game than simulator, otherwise it wouldn't be very fun at all---be it simulating a hypothetical spacecraft, an actual aircraft or managing a city.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 30 SEP 2008 at 6:19pm |
| Deleted User | Ultimately, though, most games described as simlators are more game than simulator, otherwise it wouldn't be very fun at all---be it simulating a hypothetical spacecraft, an actual aircraft or managing a city.
Ah, so I guess Nik is then correct, in the sense that most of the games we call "simulators" are not really simulators after all! :-? [smiley=laughing.gif]
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| 30 SEP 2008 at 6:46pm |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
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Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (30 SEP 2008 6:19pm)
Ultimately, though, most games described as simlators are more game than simulator, otherwise it wouldn't be very fun at all---be it simulating a hypothetical spacecraft, an actual aircraft or managing a city.
Ah, so I guess Nik is then correct, in the sense that most of the games we call "simulators" are not really simulators after all! :-? [smiley=laughing.gif]
He was right in the sense that space sims aren't sims, but he also singled that that particular sub-genre as somehow being impossible to simulate, which is not so, so he's wrong in that sense. No offence, Nik.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 30 SEP 2008 at 6:47pm |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman
Posts : 1317
Joined: 15 JAN 2008
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Ooh, [s]post count boost opportunity[/s] meaningful and respectful conversation!
So, if I made a game where a pink blob from outer space fought a green blob from deep within the ocean on the tallest peak of the Alps, the aftermath of which causes a nuclear winter that wipes out all life on Earth save for lobsters, who evolve and start a crustacean civilization that eventually overtakes the universe, that is a simulation game of the possible outcome of life on Earth?
Edit: None taken, Jking. But helicopters, fighter jets, tanks and trains are possible to accurately simulate, since they exist, even if doing so wouldn't make entertaining games...
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| 30 SEP 2008 at 6:58pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By nik2008ofs (30 SEP 2008 6:47pm)
Ooh, [s]post count boost opportunity[/s] meaningful and respectful conversation!
So, if I made a game where a pink blob from outer space fought a green blob from deep within the ocean on the tallest peak of the Alps, the aftermath of which causes a nuclear winter that wipes out all life on Earth save for lobsters, who evolve and start a crustacean civilization that eventually overtakes the universe, that is a simulation game of the possible outcome of life on Earth?
Have you been playing too much Spore, Nik? [smiley=devil_smiley_grintail.gif] With that imagination of yours, your input in it's game design might have made for more interesting gameplay than is currently the case...
Anyway, no, your game does not qualify, until you can prove that there are really green blobs deep within the ocean that would be able to live on the tallest peaks of the Alps.
That is less probable than that humans might one day populate space, because a green blob living deep within the ocean, would be adapted to very high pressures, and would burst in shallow water, let alone the Alps.
Also, it's very unlikely that lobsters would survive in conditions that cockroaches ( [smiley=eww.gif]) wouldn't......
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| 30 SEP 2008 at 7:19pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By nik2008ofs (30 SEP 2008 6:47pm)
Edit: None taken, Jking. But helicopters, fighter jets, tanks and trains are possible to accurately simulate, [highlight]since they exist[/highlight], even if doing so wouldn't make entertaining games...
Are you insinuating Gabriel Knight is not an accurate Shattenjager simulator? Just because it doesn't exist?
I'm sorry sir but I cannot continue this line of conversation.
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| 30 SEP 2008 at 7:26pm |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman
Posts : 1317
Joined: 15 JAN 2008
Location: GR
Status : Offline | But you see, Traveler, until a workable plan for faster than light travel is proposed, X3: Reunion describes as probable a future as the one I described.
The blob has adaptable molecular structure (or something) that allows it to change its volume and density. So while deep in the ocean it is smaller than a pin's head and therefore undetectable, high on the Alps it's bigger than the actual mountains, so the fight can have such dire consequences, and in space it gets as big as a gas giant... In fact, that's what gas giants are .
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| 30 SEP 2008 at 7:48pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By nik2008ofs (30 SEP 2008 7:26pm)
But you see, Traveler, until a workable plan for faster than light travel is proposed, X3: Reunion describes as probable a future as the one I described.
The blob has adaptable molecular structure (or something) that allows it to change its volume and density. So while deep in the ocean it is smaller than a pin's head and therefore undetectable, high on the Alps it's bigger than the actual mountains, so the fight can have such dire consequences, and in space it gets as big as a gas giant... In fact, that's what gas giants are .
[smiley=rofl.gif] [smiley=rofl.gif] [smiley=rofl.gif] [smiley=rofl.gif]
Ok, you win!
/me secretly wishes Nik had really been a part of the Spore design team....
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| 30 SEP 2008 at 8:05pm |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman
Posts : 1317
Joined: 15 JAN 2008
Location: GR
Status : Offline |
Originally Posted By avatar_58 (30 SEP 2008 7:19pm)
Are you insinuating Gabriel Knight is not an accurate Shattenjager simulator? Just because it doesn't exist?
Shattenjagers do not exist ? Lies! All lies!
Originally Posted By TheTraveler (30 SEP 2008 7:48pm)
Ok, you win!
What, already? That wasn't even five posts .
I haven't played Spore, nor am I anxious do so, but do you really feel that imagination is what the game is lacking?
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