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| 22 OCT 2002 at 1:17pm | |
Baron_Von_UngernIntergalactic Janitor Posts : 41 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | I would like to know a few things about your experience playing Syberia. -Did you used any walkthrough ? If yes, at which moment in the game ? -In your opinion what was the funniest puzzle ? The most difficult ? The dumbest ? -If you had just one thing to improve on Syberia 2, what would it be ? Thanks for your time and precious advices. |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 2:07pm | |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger Posts : 1784 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | -No I didn't use a walkthrough. All the puzzles are quite logical, as long as you get adapted to the fact that automatons act as humans in a way. -The most difficult puzzle was the one in the beginning I think when you had to put the fax in the automaton in front of the door so that you could get in the office. Now the dumbest puzzle...I wouldn't call it dumb, but I think Kate not being able to take her suitcase on the upper floor and not want to get her clothes dirty, thus calling momo to do the job for her made me not like her that much. But on the other hand a game I think should make you not concentrate on puzzles, because by doing so you are distracted from the story. The puzzles should just be a way to proceed with the story and in this aspect Syberia worked fine. -If I could improve one thing on Syberia...can I get two? thanks.... then it would be length (4 cds would be a good length I think) and interface (like better cursors and more feedback from Kate). Nevertheless... a great game. Can't wait for the second one. PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 2:07pm | |
bistroSorcerer Apprentice  Posts : 240 Joined: 15 OCT 2002 Status : Online | ***WARNING: POSSIBLE SEMI-SPOILERS AHEAD!!**** I had to use a walkthrough just to get through the credits.... Just kidding. I used a walkthrough to figure out the bar puzzle at the resort. For some reason that one just didn't "click" for me. The dumbest one I thought was the church (rectory). Who would just walk in there and rifle through the priest's personal things? There was no real "lead-in" for that in the plot (unless I missed reading something). And why would Momo, in the hotel lobby, have the gears to the church elevator? Would be nice to have just a little more logical progression in finding inventory items, but still keep the mystery about them. None of the puzzles really struck me as "funny". Most of them were interesting and fun to figure out; some were just a little too easy, but still fun. Otherwise, this was the best game I've played since Myst III. Graphics were magnificent to say the least. Improvements for Syberia 2: Longer gameplay and a just little more latitude to explore the environment. Oh yeah....a little more comment from Kate. When and if she discovers something. The cave and the mammoth doll....there was absolutely no comment from her. Most people would say something like "Wow! Look at what I found!" or "What in the world is THAT?"...there was just silence from Kate as she picked it up. A little more typical human reaction from her would be nice. |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 2:14pm | |
dimidimidimiSchattenjgerPosts : 1784 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Hei Baron, can I ask you something? It writes below your name that you are a game designer. Can I ask you which game are you designing? And where are you from? Thanks. Dimitris PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 2:31pm | |
Baron_Von_UngernIntergalactic JanitorPosts : 41 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | dimidimidimi... Take a guess... |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 2:40pm | |
dimidimidimiSchattenjgerPosts : 1784 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | hmm... ok I will Since your name is baron von ungern I would say...that you come from Hungary. And since you are asking about Syberia you are preparing a fan made project called Syberia 1,5 Train stop in moscow Did I get anything right? I don't think so, so can you please enlighten me PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 3:02pm | |
dimidimidimiSchattenjgerPosts : 1784 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Hey Baron, I just checked your stats, and it says you live in Montreal. You're not by any chance a member of the Syberia team are you? Because if you are, then a big congratulations to you. Syberia was a masterpiece. With one or two improvements Syberia 2 could be even better. And can you also give my congratulations to Benoit Sokal. What a great job. The story, graphics and sound were phenomenal. I want a biiig favour from you. Can you please tell us how Syberia is doing in sales? Like give us a number of worldwide sales so far maybe? I've heard that it is going quite good and it is still in no 10 of all pc games in one of the biggest retailers in Sweden. I think your success could mean a lot to the future of point and click adventures. That is why I am so interested in learning how you are doing in sales. Thanks a lot for stopping by. Of course if you are not working in the Syberia team then just forget what I've just said and pretend I don't exist and good luck with the game you are making. Have a nice time whatever you are working with PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 4:06pm | |
mszvPrivate Detective  Posts : 751 Joined: 12 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Hi, I loved the game. I thought it was beautiful, immersive, and just the right length. I did use a walkthrough. Even though the puzzles were rather easy, I'm puzzle impaired (bad for an adventure gamer!) so I needed a walkthrough. I don't think a "normal" adventure gamer would need a walkthrough, except perhaps for one puzzle - the bar one. The walkthrough on the Microids site was OK, but the one on gameboomers was the really good one. Of all the puzzles, I think the bar puzzle was the hardest. Most of the posts I've read on various forums said that the puzzles were easy. Some said "too easy", but I don't think so. It didn't seem to me that your goal for the game was to make hard puzzles. Syberia wasn't designed to be a bravura puzzle solving experience. I thought the puzzles advanced the story nicely. That seemed to be your goal, to get people to go through the story without quickly rushing through the game. The puzzles were not "ends in themselves", and I really liked that about the game. The game was also quite linear, but that seemed to work very well for the game. I loved how you could repeat viewing the cut scenes, after they had been played in the game. What I liked about the game was that it looked like it was done by one person. Now I know that wasn't so, although Benoit Sokal was the designer, it took a talented team to create the game. I liked it that the game had one point of view and one "look", it didn't look like it was designed by a committee. I'm trying to think what you could improve. Everything in the game seemed like it belonged there, so it's hard to know what to change. I know, there were times I would have liked to have Kate zip through locations where she had already been, not just run. If there is a way to do that, I didn't figure out how to do it. I did figure out how to make Kate run. I also would have liked to cut the dialogue short. Sometimes I went through the dialogue, and then played it again, not remembering if I did it (I didn't take notes). After I realized I'd heard a thread before, I wanted to make it stop. If there was a way to do that, I didn't figure it out. I'd also like more of a soundtrack. The soundtrack was very good (very cinematic), but the same themes repeated themselves over and over. I'd like a more varied soundtrack, not more varied in musical styles, just more music. I'd like you to publish a music CD, perhaps in a "collector" version of the game. Great game. Regards, mszv |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 4:09pm | |
MrLipidPrivate Detective Posts : 666 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | (CAUTION -- CONTAINS SPOILERS FROM EARLY IN THE GAME) My opinion? Lost all patience with it almost immediately. Found the idea of Kate being trapped in the lobby by her luggage utterly ridiculous. And to have her trapped in the lobby again, almost immediately, by a rain storm which was waiting for her to make a call and pick up a fax was simply too much. Syberia is a series of pretty postcards propped up in front of a series of hotspots. The idea of running Kate here and there in hopes of figuring out where the developers had planted the next hotspot simply didn't fulfill my definition of an adventure. If I want a click through graphic novel, I'll play Gadget. For all those who played and loved Syberia, good for you. Just not to my taste. |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 4:27pm | |
dimidimidimiSchattenjgerPosts : 1784 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | So which adventure game fullfills your definition of adventure? "Found the idea of Kate being trapped in the lobby by her luggage utterly ridiculous" Tell me when you go in a hotel would you just start looking yourself for the room running up and down the stairs or would you go to the reception to get some info first? Or was it so difficult to solve this puzzle that ruined the whole game for you? I think you are exaggerating and you started the game with a negative opinion about it before you even played it. In all adventures there are some kind of 'obstacles' to prevent you go looking for things that are irrelevant at this point of time in the story. Anybody with a long experience in adventure games knows that. And she was not trapped by a rainstorm. If you didn't get the fax at that point you would probably start roaming valadilene in vain looking for a clue what to do next. By not letting you out the door, is the way of the designer to tell you, that you have not accomplished everything that is to be accomplished at the lobby at the exact point. If instead they let you go out on Valadilene you would probably not get the fax unless you looked in a walkthrough. After this you would have come here in the forum and you would have complained that Syberia has illogical puzzles and that it didn't fullfill your definition of adventures. If you want to roam enviroments freely without any obstacle I think you are in a wrong genre here. Adventures core engine is the story and all around it serves it. Enjoy the story and you will enjoy an adventure. "Syberia is a series of pretty postcards propped up in front of a series of hotspots. " You could maybe say that for Myst, but definitely not for Syberia. Syberia is a very beautiful, smart and immersive game and I would recommend it to any TRUE adventure player. PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 4:38pm | |
mszvPrivate DetectivePosts : 751 Joined: 12 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Hi all, I loved Syberia, I thought it was a great game. However, there is plenty of room on this board for everyone's opinions, in my opinion. We all can't like the same game. It takes courage for someone to say they didn't like an adventure game that is very popular. Good for you, MrLipid, for giving us your point of view. This gives me courage to give my opinion, on games I didn't like, even if most of the Just Adventure people liked the game. Syberia is a very linear game. I like both linear and non-linear games. If you don't like a linear style of gameplay (many don't) Syberia won't be your kind of game. OK, now I'm done, got to get back to work! Regards, mszv |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 4:52pm | |
MrLipidPrivate DetectivePosts : 666 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | "So which adventure game fullfills your definition of adventure?" Dark Fall. Found the idea of Kate being trapped in the lobby by her luggage utterly ridiculous. "Tell me when you go in a hotel would you just start looking yourself for the room running up and down the stairs or would you go to the reception to get some info first? Or was it so difficult to solve this puzzle that ruined the whole game for you?" I would go to reception...with my luggage. To start an adventure with the heroine too tired to carry her own suitcase is silly. And to bend the game logic around so the heroine has to be tired in order to demonstrate the HELP function is about as unimmersive as I can imagine. 'Could I have your attention please? We're going to put up a completely artificial obstacle here in order for you to learn about using the HELP function. Thank you.' I wouldn't say the luggage bit ruined the game, but it got things rolling in that direction. "I think you are exaggerating and you started the game with a negative opinion about it before you even played it. In all adventures there are some kind of 'obstacles' to prevent you go looking for things that are irrelevant at this point of time in the story. Anybody with a long experience in adventure games knows that." Dark Fall pretty much lets you go wherever you want. As someone with some 15 years experience with adventure games, I was dismayed to see how closed the structure of Syberia turned out to be. Like Arthur's Knights, there appears to be only one order in which to do things. Try to do them out of order and either nothing will happen or Kate will start muttering to herself about needing to do something else. "And she was not trapped by a rainstorm. If you didn't get the fax at that point you would probably start roaming valadilene in vain looking for a clue what to do next. By not letting you out the door, is the way of the designer to tell you, that you have not accomplished everything that is to be accomplished at the lobby at the exact point." OK, she/I was actually trapped by the designer. And that is the heart of my frustration with Syberia. Syberia only works if players figure out in exactly what order the hotspots need to accessed. The challenge is to figure out what the designers want. The game world becomes an excuse to hide hotspots. "If instead they let you go out on Valadilene you would probably not get the fax unless you looked in a walkthrough. After this you would have come here in the forum and you would have complained that Syberia has illogical puzzles and that it didn't fullfill your definition of adventures." Or I might have shown up at the notary, discovered that I needed the fax, called the office, gotten the fax and moved forward. The only reason there is a connection between the rain and the fax is because the designer created one. "If you want to roam enviroments freely without any obstacle I think you are in a wrong genre here. Adventures core engine is the story and all around it serves it. Enjoy the story and you will enjoy an adventure." Or play Dark Fall. Syberia is a series of pretty postcards propped up in front of a series of hotspots. "You could maybe say that for Myst, but definitely not for Syberia. Syberia is a very beautiful, smart and immersive game and I would recommend it to any TRUE adventure player." I would agree that Syberia is very beautiful. I'm undecided on smart and it, for me, was utterly unimmersive. But then maybe I am just not a TRUE adventure player. Again, for those who loved it, good for you. |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 5:02pm | |
dimidimidimiSchattenjgerPosts : 1784 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | I guess mszv was right, every body has the right to like or not like a game, so sorry if I was a bit on the 'attack' before. It is just that I really loved Syberia and there are not so many games done like that anymore so I feel a bit defensive when people start bickering. I haven't played darkfall but I have heard it is a myst-clone. So as for the postcards issue it is definitely more appropriate as a characterization of all myst clones in my opinion. I don't remember if the rain part kept you in before you got the fax or before you got mommo's wheels. But either way, I welcome an effort of a designer to lead me in the correct way without having to revisit places 2 and 3 times to finally get everything I need. Think it as a help fact so that you don't get lost or waiste time in going from one place to another to find a solution. For me all adventures should help you solve puzzles in this kind of way, that makes puzzle solving much easier and much faster. I guess it goes down to whether you are interested more in the story or more in the enviroment, puzzles. I am more interested in the story and I see puzzles as a way to progress the story. Since I haven't played darkfall and probably won't (1st person adventures are not my favourites) I can't really build an argument here. I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy this masterpiece. PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 5:09pm | |
MrLipidPrivate DetectivePosts : 666 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | Originally Posted By mszv (22 OCT 2002 4:37pm) Hey, I'll give anybody my point of view on anything. Oddly enough, I think I am motivated more by curiosity than fortified by courage. Something about Syberia really rubbed me the wrong way. Trying to put into words what I found frustrating about it helps me more clearly understand what that something is. And if standing up and saying, "I didn't like it" helps other adventurers do the same with other games and keeps the world of adventure gaming from becoming one big undifferentiated monolith of "we all have no choice but to love all adventure games," great. Variety is, after all, spicier than things that aren't spicy. Or something like that. |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 5:42pm | |
MrLipidPrivate DetectivePosts : 666 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (22 OCT 2002 5:02pm) Not a problem. Just don't ever say anything bad about Dark Fall. It is just that I really loved Syberia and there are not so many games done like that anymore so I feel a bit defensive when people start bickering. Which is exactly how I feel about Dark Fall. I haven't played darkfall but I have heard it is a myst-clone. So as for the postcards issue it is definitely more appropriate as a characterization of all myst clones in my opinion. Myst-clone is one of those phrases that has really come to annoy me. One of the cleverest things about the development of MYST was the discovery that MacroMedia Director could be used to create a game world. MYST is a great format. And Dark Fall built upon that format by creating a rich and compelling back story that unfolds as one explores. Most of Dark Fall, like a great play, novel or film, occurs in the mind of the player. Dark Fall provides the dots and the player provides the connections. Very satisfying. I don't remember if the rain part kept you in before you got the fax or before you got mommo's wheels. But either way, I welcome an effort of a designer to lead me in the correct way without having to revisit places 2 and 3 times to finally get everything I need. Think it as a help fact so that you don't get lost or waiste time in going from one place to another to find a solution. Perhaps I have thinner skin than you do. I found myself becoming black and blue from being nudged around by the designer. I resent being pushed when I am playing. For me, one of the primary appeals of an adventure is the permission it offers to get lost and waste time. For me all adventures should help you solve puzzles in this kind of way, that makes puzzle solving much easier and much faster. I guess it goes down to whether you are interested more in the story or more in the enviroment, puzzles. I am more interested in the story and I see puzzles as a way to progress the story. Ah, a legitimate distinction. Is the story an excuse to solve puzzles or are the puzzles a means to advance the story? I love puzzles that disappear into the fabric of the story, like those in Titanic: Adventure Out of Time and Dark Fall. Sadly, this is a level of design that is very difficult to achieve. Failing that, I'll take a good assortment of puzzles with whatever excuse for a story is on offer. I do not play adventure games primarily for the stories. Since I haven't played darkfall and probably won't (1st person adventures are not my favourites) I can't really build an argument here. I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy this masterpiece. And I'm glad you found something that gave you as much pleasure as Dark Fall gave me. We both won, just not at each other's game. |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 5:47pm | |
NMLIIntergalactic Janitor Posts : 12 Joined: 22 OCT 2002 Status : Online | !!Contains spoilers!! I did not use a walkthrough at any time. I think the puzzles were too easy. The only one I had trouble with was the "coctail puzzle" It took me around 1.5 hour to solve. But no cheating!!! The funniest would be the one in Barrockstadt with the locks. The idea with the phone was great!! The dumbest/most boring puzzle was at the church were Kate had to use those colered cards in the tower. Was that ever a puzzle?? Improvements to Syberia 2: The game should be longer; 30+ hours. The puzzles should be harder. I really injoyed the game and I cant wait for syberia 2. Keep up the good work. |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 5:52pm | |
bistroSorcerer ApprenticePosts : 240 Joined: 15 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Originally Posted By NMLI (22 OCT 2002 5:46pm) Another good example of continuity in the puzzles. There were no clues/indicators whatsover that a bell tune would open up the tomb in the cemetery. (or did I miss a clue somewhere?) Please don't get the wrong idea...I loved the game. Just one or two 'great leaps in logic' that could have been done better. |
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 7:26pm | |
| Deleted User | i did use walkthrough when i was in the botanical station . and some part i couldn't remember. there werent any dumb puzzles...i think. but what pissed me off was the automaton!!! Kate had to get tickets from him and he has to check them...bla bla bla. talking about robots...oops i meant "automatons". i agree with dimidimidimi. the lentgh should be a lot longer. considering syberia was such a lovely game! |
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