| 30 SEP 2006 at 12:59am |
BazzaLBPrivate Detective
Posts : 512
Joined: 27 AUG 2005
Location: AU
Status : Offline | So you don't believe that the copious quantities of "inflict violence on other people" style games and the graphic way it is portrayed desensitizes SOME people to acts of violence and its consequences on other people? You don't believe this has any effect on people's underlying empathy for others? What is it then that is contributing to an ever increasing number of violent acts perpertrated by adolescents in our society (I don't just mean walking around school campuses toting a gun)? You don't believe the vast quantity of violent media and its utter acceptance is a contributing factor?
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| 1 OCT 2006 at 1:13pm |
gailSchattenjger
Posts : 1659
Joined: 19 JAN 2004
Status : Offline | Have you seen this website yet, chronotigger65?
http://www.videogamevoters.org/gamesnotviolence/
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other screaming, "WOO HOO what a ride!!!
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| 2 OCT 2006 at 4:12pm |
anthonyJourneyman
Posts : 1270
Joined: 11 JUN 2003
Status : Offline | I think Thompson's an idiot and doesn't have a clue as to what he is talking about. They are just games!
Man, I'd love to confront him in a face-to-face setting and show him how I feel, but he's always too far away from the Pay 'N Spray and I'd never be able to get there quickly and get rid of my warning level, even if there was a stinger or a banshee nearby that I could jack.
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| 12 NOV 2007 at 7:46pm |
| Deleted User | I think he is right. In fact, there have been cases of murdered people because of video games influence. It´s not good to play in excess. This doesn´t mean that every single person that plays "manhunt", "halo" or "pipeline" is going to kil someone. But ill people, who have weak minds, and play so much they get crazy and they try to get the thrill and excitement from the game in real life. I think he is only after violent games, (I mean, the worst thing a man obsessed with "super mario" can do is eat a posionous mushroom and maybe kill a tortoise), I don´t believe it´s right to forbid them, but anyone can have access to them, and that needs to be fixed.
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| 12 NOV 2007 at 8:34pm |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 295
Joined: 17 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Bazza (30 SEP 2006 12:59am)
So you don't believe that the copious quantities of "inflict violence on other people" style games and the graphic way it is portrayed desensitizes SOME people to acts of violence and its consequences on other people? You don't believe this has any effect on people's underlying empathy for others? What is it then that is contributing to an ever increasing number of violent acts perpertrated by adolescents in our society (I don't just mean walking around school campuses toting a gun)? You don't believe the vast quantity of violent media and its utter acceptance is a contributing factor?
I'd debate it with you, but it doesn't matter if it does or doesn't... it is art and free speech applies.
Violent TV is available with basic cable and most movies/tv are about 100x more violent and realistic than video games.
Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset!
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| 12 NOV 2007 at 8:41pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (12 NOV 2007 8:34pm)
Originally Posted By Bazza (30 SEP 2006 12:59am)
So you don't believe that the copious quantities of "inflict violence on other people" style games and the graphic way it is portrayed desensitizes SOME people to acts of violence and its consequences on other people? You don't believe this has any effect on people's underlying empathy for others? What is it then that is contributing to an ever increasing number of violent acts perpertrated by adolescents in our society (I don't just mean walking around school campuses toting a gun)? You don't believe the vast quantity of violent media and its utter acceptance is a contributing factor?
I'd debate it with you, but it doesn't matter if it does or doesn't... it is art and free speech applies.
Violent TV is available with basic cable and most movies/tv are about 100x more violent and realistic than video games.
Don´t forget about violent music. Violent movies. Violent teachers. Violent classmates. Violent parents. Violent violence.
Violence is everywhere, you can´t take erase it from society.
The problem is the crazy poor stupids (I can say "stupid" in JA+, right? - I´m new haha) that come up with violent attacks. These people need to be treated. The only way to solve this, the only true defense to hate is a four-letter word...
...LOVE
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| 29 JAN 2008 at 8:11pm |
RetrogamerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 84
Joined: 29 JAN 2008
Status : Online | That last post was a bit too Hippie-ish for my tastes, but I do have to agree. The key to not raising violent children is care and education, and as such parents should be responsible for determining what's right for their kids, not the government.
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| 1 JUN 2008 at 10:26pm |
ArkadiaPrivate Detective
Posts : 558
Joined: 1 JUN 2008
Status : Online | I completely disapprove of boycotts against video games with the argument that they "influence violence", if only for the fact that violence and indeed, extreme gore are far more accessible than the video games in question. Turn on your TV, flip through 5 random channels - I dare you to not see a smidge of violence or avoid a movie involving violent actions. If someone is going to go after someone, please do go after the movies first, since it is movies and television children growing up are subjected to far more than video games.
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| 2 JUN 2008 at 8:14pm |
MaumPrivate Detective
Posts : 593
Joined: 2 JUN 2007
Location: UK
Status : Offline | Before video games, kids would play war, invent horrible stories and *kill* each other in the playground.
Before video games were even invented, there was gore/ horror in whatever means of entertainment was available at the time.
I don't get why video games are now blamed. I'm with the last 3 posters- if you want to blame someone, look at the parents and the schools, not to mention psychological problems. There is no way a *normal* teenager is going to play a violent game and suddenly decide to turn into a real killing. The trigger comes from somewhere else.
A violent, hopeless environment, no sense of escape, depression, lack of guidance etc. There are many factors that should be explored and addressed before video games- I believe that's a total media/politician hype that makes for a good sound bite, not to mention a good excuse.
But ill people, who have weak minds, and play so much they get crazy and they try to get the thrill and excitement from the game in real life. I think he is only after violent games, (I mean, the worst thing a man obsessed with "super mario" can do is eat a posionous mushroom and maybe kill a tortoise), I don´t believe it´s right to forbid them, but anyone can have access to them, and that needs to be fixed.
You're talking psychopaths, killers who hunt for thrills. By all accounts those people will not be 'turned' by video games, they will be born with murderous impulses that they progressively start exploring. At best (or worse I should say) they might ideas or inspiration from certain games, but without them they'd be equally lethal.
Just wanted to add, regarding your last point (anyone can have access to them, and that needs to be fixed) What would you propose- psych evaluation for game buyers? And how about people who rent Hostel-type movies at their local Blockbuster? Should they be screened for potential mental imbalance as well- where do you draw the line?
Currently playing: Dragon Age Origins, Dishonored, The Witcher, Fallout 3, Deponia
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| 2 JUN 2008 at 8:38pm |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By maum (2 JUN 2008 8:14pm)
Before video games, kids would play war, invent horrible stories and *kill* each other in the playground.
Indeed. My father once related to me his propensity for playing cowboys and indians with his friends as a youth, complete with mock bows and novelty arrows that would wrap around one's head to appear as if they had passed through the skull.
If that's not "murder simulation", then what of paintball? The only distinguishing features between hunting a human being and playing a game of paintball is the weapon used and the lethality involved. Certainly this fairly accurately simulates murder? Yet, I don't see people such as this Jack Thompson claiming paintball
is the cause of mass killings. It's just a mildly dangerous communal physical activity.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 2 JUN 2008 at 9:02pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
I can't remember a time when kids (especially males) didn't played war games, cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, spy vs spy, aliens vs mankind, and other scenarios based specifically on ultra violent encounters, deadly weapons, and domination.
I also can't recall a time when popular movies, TV shows, books, magazines, comics, and real-life news reports were not consistently full of gruesome murders, serial killers, the horrors of war, brutal dictators, political assassinations, torture, assaults, muggings, drug smuggling, numerous addictions, gangs, armed robberies, rape, child abuse, wife beatings, and a long list of other very serious crimes.
Then there are contact sports of every kind that have for a very long time played a major role in kids' lives and served as the basis for many popular collegiate and professional sports leagues - that in turn support illegal gambling on a global scale.
Add in an increasing disturbing attitude of selfish greed, vain pusuits, instant gratification, disposable values, rampant hero worship, incivility, and general denial in the form of scapegoating and it comes as no surprise that video games are the latest target for nutcases like Thompson, grandstanding politicians, the right-wing media, and ultra conservative control freaks.
Cheers, Terry
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| 3 JUN 2008 at 5:25am |
ArkadiaPrivate Detective
Posts : 558
Joined: 1 JUN 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Luigi Mamao (12 NOV 2007 7:45pm)
I don´t believe it´s right to forbid them, but anyone can have access to them, and that needs to be fixed.
Not true at all. There are age restrictions on violent video games, restrictions that are heavily enforced. I have a few friends who work at game stores and they're instructed to ID anyone who looks under the age of 25-30 (don't remember which). This is enforced VERY strongly. I've seen many friends in their 20-somethings ID'd while buying Halo or other 17+ games.
I disagree with the consensus that violent video games make unstable people kill. If it weren't video games, it would be watching movies like Hostel on repeat for days. People are always looking for a scapegoat.
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| 3 JUN 2008 at 7:35am |
Mr Innocent.Journeyman
Posts : 1316
Joined: 15 JAN 2008
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Any child that knows what a torrent client is (and what child doesn't, these days?) can get his or her hands on any game he or she wants, Arkadia, if there is a way to effectively prevent children from getting their hands on inappropriate material in the internet age, no one has yet found it.
I grew up playing Metal Slug and Mortal Kombat and I haven't yet so much as gotten into a shouting match with another human being. Perhaps I'm just a slow learner. But I have also seen a bunch of twelve-year-olds play Grand Theft Auto, and I didn't like it. Greater parental awareness of what their kids are playing is certainly desirable.
Have any of you read the Byron report? To the great disappointment of millions , the British government-sponsored review on video games and their influence on children is a very sensible document with some actually useful suggestions, not a hate mongering leaflet that pretends it has found the source of all evil.
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| 3 JUN 2008 at 7:53am |
ArkadiaPrivate Detective
Posts : 558
Joined: 1 JUN 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By nik2008ofs (3 JUN 2008 7:34am)
Any child that knows what a torrent client is (and what child doesn't, these days?) can get his or her hands on any game he or she wants, Arkadia, if there is a way to effectively prevent children from getting their hands on inappropriate material in the internet age, no one has yet found it.
I grew up playing Metal Slug and Mortal Kombat and I haven't yet so much as gotten into a shouting match with another human being. Perhaps I'm just a slow learner. But I have also seen a bunch of twelve-year-olds play Grand Theft Auto, and I didn't like it. Greater parental awareness of what their kids are playing is certainly desirable.
Have any of you read the Byron report? To the great disappointment of millions , the British government-sponsored review on video games and their influence on children is a very sensible document with some actually useful suggestions, not a hate mongering leaflet that pretends it has found the source of all evil.
That's quite true, I've also forgotten that laws are different around the world and perhaps some countries don't have legal restrictions.
However, the same can be said of any kind of material - 8 year olds can download R rated gore movies, fetish pornography and also sorts of other things that demonstrate violence. I haven't read nor heard of the Byron report, but I'll make sure to read it on a day when I haven't been up for 20 hours (does that sentence even make sense? I'm craving sleep :|.
In my experience, of which I have had little but enough, those psychopathic minors who take violent video games as an encouragement to hurt or kill tend to amuse themselves more by torturing small animals than playing video games. Anyone can "simulate murder", as pointed out by previous posts noting little kids playing cowboys and indians and such. I just find fault in the fact that people are directly after video games, when violent movies are much more readily accessible and in general are far more violent than their video game counterparts.
I don't deny that video games indeed can encourage, but I quite believe in "if there is a will, there is a way" and as such, many things are probably likely to trigger it. I think rather than going after the industry, people should be putting their efforts into educating parents into recognizing signs of abnormal violence, anger and cruelty in developing children and teenagers, and teaching them how to deal with this. We all met a few of those psychopathic kids growing up - the ones who loved to set fire to ants or kick dogs or start fights for no real reason.
Sigh, it just infuriates me that people want to go after video games or whatever else, instead of better educating parents about things like this. Of course, it does seem that there is a tendency among the "psychopaths" (I use that term loosely) to come from unloving backgrounds, so education probably wouldn't help in this respect.
Doublesigh. This world ain't perfect, ya know? Never will be. I swear, people just fight these battles because they have nothing better to do.
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| 4 JUN 2008 at 3:59am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Human society has always had its violent element. Kids encounter violence at kindy right through school. They see it on the 6pm news. They hear the adults discussing wars and nasty crimes as they read the paper. It's an inescapable part of our existence. However, I think raising a child in a violent or neglectful home is more likely to result in that child growing into a violent adult.
Childhood games of cowboys and indians were great fun. Lots of imaginery violence but no actual pain. I always wanted a cap gun in a holster like my brother.
There does appear to be a growing tendency for social violence - stabbings at pubs, brawls at football matches, road rage, vandalism, graffiti, etc, but I think the reasons for all that are deeper (drugs, unemployment etc) and can't be blamed upon video games desensitising people. Hell, the embedded news crews in Gulf Storm 1 & 2 did a great job of that. War as entertainment served up at dinner time. :-/
I do think violence is a serious issue but it needs a multi-pronged approach that looks at all the reasons. In the meantime I avoid violent games (from personal taste) and won't let my children have them.
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| 4 JUN 2008 at 8:50am |
MaumPrivate Detective
Posts : 593
Joined: 2 JUN 2007
Location: UK
Status : Offline | Re letting your children play violent games, I think there's an issue that really could be addressed here.
If certain people are so intent on blaming video games on teenage violence, surely they should first ask why a. parents allow their children to get hold of R rated games and b. allow them to play them unsupervised and for such long periods of time that they will develop those alleged homicidal tendencies?
We were allowed to play computer games as kids, but always in a communal room of the house, and for short periods of time- homework, and of course friends, extra-curricular activities etc would take up a large chunk of our days, there wasn't time to play endless hours of any type of computer games.
I think this debate is BS personally. As I mentioned before, it's yet another media soundbite, and an easy target for politician who don't want to address real social issues.
Currently playing: Dragon Age Origins, Dishonored, The Witcher, Fallout 3, Deponia
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| 4 JUN 2008 at 5:37pm |
Steve VSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 265
Joined: 16 MAR 2008
Status : Online | There's quite a bit of hand-wringing in the UK at the moment over a spate of knife killings amongst black teenagers in London. This 'Spate' might not raise too many eyebrows in the US as the total number of these homicides for the year stands at 16, but it is an unusual blip in British crime statistics. The main reason? Not video games, movies or bad parenting, but 'RESPECT' - a term that is meaningless (or has a different meaning) outside of Black youth culture and is therefore barely understood by the media or the white middle class dominated authorities.
I am a middle aged white civil servant, so don't get the idea that I am trying to defend what has been going on, but at least I can vaguely see that gaining 'respect' among your peers by carrying a lethal weapon and showing that you aren't afraid to use it to control your patch is sadly all these kids aspire to. If there is one cultural force that has an influence on this it's Rap and the 'gangsta' culture it promotes, you don't see gangs of white kids with their 'posses' hanging out on street corners comparing their bling or pimping their cribs, but British black kids suck all that stuff up and it becomes all they want out of life.
Maybe this will change in a few years but its a sad state of affairs - I just wanted to point out that I haven't seen ANY articles in the media blaming this on Video Games..
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| 4 JUN 2008 at 11:02pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Looks like this lunatic's days of terrorizing the courts are just about over.
Cheers, Terry
Jack Thompson Walks Out On Hearing, Court Recommends Enhanced Disbarment
http://kotaku.com/5013148/jack-thompson-walks-out-on-hearing-court-recommends-enhanced-disbarment
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