| 12 JAN 2003 at 10:11pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | You know... that's an interesting question. I play both types the same way, that is, I explore very carefuly my surroundings, take whatever isn't nailed down (or my backpack allows ) and try everything although I'd take notes if the game requires it (in any type).
There is just one thing that sometimes I do with IF which I don't with graphical adventures and that is also drawing a map.
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| 12 JAN 2003 at 11:15pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | drawing a map is far more necessary in txt advs so that's smth i do, that i rearly do with other kind of advs... i also read everything more carefully... and of course when i'm stuck i fool around giving weird and sometimes... erm... adult commands
the only gfx advs that my style of play comes close to txt advs are the early sierras... obviously because they're a mix of txt and gfx advs
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 12 JAN 2003 at 11:55pm |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5535
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Rael (12 JAN 2003 10:11pm)
There is just one thing that sometimes I do with IF which I don't with graphical adventures and that is also drawing a map.
I've heard of programs that automap for you while playing Interactive fiction. Are they helpful? Or do IF players consider that cheating?
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| 13 JAN 2003 at 1:41am |
GamaholicPrivate Detective
Posts : 724
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Extremely helpful thread! I like both the idea of drawing a map (I'm still on Zork I, and I keep going round in circles...major deja vu)
...and having notepad open for various names and notes. As a visual person, I know these methods will help so much.
That which makes one happy is not a waste of time
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| 13 JAN 2003 at 1:41am |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Andromus (12 JAN 2003 11:55pm)
I've heard of programs that automap for you while playing Interactive fiction. Are they helpful? Or do IF players consider that cheating?
never seen such a program, but unless it's smth like wonderland where you could click your way around the map i wouldn't find it very helpful... i prefer having the map layed out on paper in front of me... and of course that would not be cheating... a map is not part of the solution... you use it to make things easier, so if it's self-drawn it just saves you the doodling!
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 13 JAN 2003 at 3:08pm |
RpauPrivate Detective
Posts : 439
Joined: 15 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Andromus (12 JAN 2003 11:55pm)
I've heard of programs that automap for you while playing Interactive fiction. Are they helpful? Or do IF players consider that cheating?
Interesting program. I never heard about it. I wouldn't consider the use of it as cheating, since spatial navigation is not a puzzle in itself.
“even the lover of the myth is in a sense a lover of wisdom, for the myth is composed of wonders”
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| 13 JAN 2003 at 4:09pm |
JoYSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 208
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | [img]http://people.zeelandnet.nl/marcofranse/fun/map1.gif[/img][img]http://people.zeelandnet.nl/marcofranse/fun/map2.gif[/img]
One of my old maps, just some blocks on a piece of paper, each with it's own number, and the page next to it would contain the description of that room, which items or people are there, possible exits and so on.
Not all exits are just north, south, east, west. sometimes special commands/actions are neccesary to proceed. I made a habit of writing them down, comes in handy if you haven't played in a while and forgot how the heck you got past a certain point.
In some games it's not possible to carry all things you find, so it might be handy to draw on your map, or somehow keep track of where you left an item when your hands are full...
I think many people developped there own mapping technique, doing things just slightly different than someone else, that's why I'm not that exited about mapping tools, some are good, but most of the time they just don't fit my kind of mapping, and if they do they are not free (guemap? was a good one if I remember correct)
The only automap function afaik is in the MagneticScroll window style games and in the AGT interpreter! Oh and there is a tools that tries to generate a map from ZIP-format (?) games. Afaik it doesn't draw the map as you proceed, but makes an entire map at once. (but I could be way off on that one!!!)
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| 13 JAN 2003 at 7:21pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | I usually play the game just briefly and rush through all the locations in order to get a rough idea how to center the map on the paper. Then I begin drawing the map as I go along in the game.
I tried many different ways to draw the map. I tried to do it like Joy did a few times, but it was a bit chaotic having to read the descriptions matching them up with the numbers.
Now I usually write the name of the location and connect rooms with lines. I don't draw any boxes, this is just graphical decor and doesn't help much. I always try to include special landmarks and objects in the map like the sea, a tower, a well, a tree with simplified graphics.
I write names of creatures and important objects next to the location names in differently colored small print.
It helps a lot to keep track of the exploration.
I use to open a text file and jut down all important information I collect during the game.
In the same file I keep track of the score and write down the several tasks which are at hand in question form. This always helps me to keep focused on the most important puzzles.
In the past I used to write down every single object that is examinable in a table under the names of the locations. I usually don't do that nowadays. It's too much work and you lose yourself very fast in all those names and get confused after a while.
I always keep a list of every inventory item, where I found it and where it is currently located, if dropped.
This is especially important if you replay parts for minimum number of turns.
Some games have automatic tracking functions of objects and places, which saves a bit work.
While playing I try to use the most common verbs after which I try more special ones in order to get a feeling for the parser, which verbs it recognizes, its complexity.
Before all that I read the "about" or "help" file of the game if any. Many games have special parser functions.
You always have to remember to use listen, smell and taste. They can provide you with important clues. Together with the imperative "look" command I consider them as additional explore-your-surroundings verbs which I use in any new location.
As I said it is very important to replay parts you know for minimum number of turns. Many of the old-fashioned games provide only a given number of turns for lamps and light sources in general or for example trigger a big catastrophe after an amount of turns.
This part of IF is annoying to me sometimes, but I usually try to keep it up in most of the games. At least if I not know for sure that movement is unlimited.
That's my strategy guide for IF. Happy playing!
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 5:58pm |
JoYSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 208
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Any chance you can put up one of your maps? Allways nice to look at new methods to draw them! (yes I to have troubles fitting them on the page, too much action to the west, leaving the rightside of the page blank. How to draw the upstairs of a castle, or rooms that don't link back logically. Mapping is hard work!)
I remember being stuck in adventures for ages because I didn't know the right english verb! I used to run through the programs "source code" to see if I could extract a list of verbs...
Nowadays in IF many writers put the special verbs in the game info so that's pretty nice of them, but now and then I still get stuck!
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 7:42pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner at hand.
But it's simple. Just names and lines connecting them like I explained.
It's really interesting to look at the stacks of old maps and notes. Now that I use text files in general the notes are no longer existent in handwriting. But the maps are still. Wow, I've drawn many maps...forgot most of the games for which I've done them.
Really interesting. Many of those notes mean nothing to me now.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 10:56pm |
NellieSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 359
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I find mapmaking dull work, though I always do it because I hate going round in circles even more. I'm always itching to play the game (move around the gameworld and interact with things), and hate being held back in this by the necessity of carefully documenting each location every couple of minutes. As far as I'm concerned, the fun really starts when the map is finished.
That's not to say there's no enjoyment to be had from mapmaking. I always get a kick out of a job well done, and the thrill of finally being able to zip back and forth across the gameworld quickly and easily is a big boost. I'd just prefer it if mapping wasn't required, or the map took care of itself.
I use a quick written reference of each location first, to save time (and eliminate redrawing), like this:
1. Inside Cave
N - 2
E - 3
SW - 4
2. Outside Cave
S - 1
NW - 5
3. Damp Cave Corner
W - 1
...etc. That's the 'map' at its simplest - I sometimes throw in objects and notes too. It's reasonably easy to follow as it is, without even drawing anything, though a visual reference is obviously more convenient. I draw the map later, when I can be bothered (or sometimes not at all).
Incidentally, I came up with this system by necessity when trying to get through the maze in 'The Warlock of Firetop Mountain' (an adventure gamebook) - one of the most ridiculously longwinded and dull mazes ever. It saved my sanity.
[b]£1bn -[/b] Amount British government has pledged to paying off debt of poorest nations over next 10 years.&&&&[b]£5bn -[/b] Amount British government has already spent on Iraq campaign.
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| 15 JAN 2003 at 1:41am |
HowardSSpace Cadet
Posts : 103
Joined: 10 DEC 2002
Status : Online | That's a good strategy. In text adventures details can be crucial. I've found the ability to take notes as being crucial at times especially when you are stiudying inscriptions, decoding a different language or mapping your progress in a game's area.
Howard
http://www.malinche.net
Join the Text Adventure Game Renaissance! Visit http://www.malinche.net
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| 15 JAN 2003 at 2:57pm |
JoYSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 208
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Hey Elfstone, you mean something like this?
[img]http://people.zeelandnet.nl/marcofranse/fun/Buckaroo_Banzai_map.gif[/img]
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| 15 JAN 2003 at 6:06pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Exactly!
I use arrows like in this map and "go somewhere" or "enter" arrows, too.
If I know for sure that there are not several floor levels in the map I use lines for up/down as well. Otherwise I draw a small arrow upwards or downwards and put a number next to it.
Then I draw the next part of the map on a different sheet - or maybe on the same in a different position, if it is let's say a tower with some higher floor levels, but not a complete floor or maybe a tree with several height levels - and put the corresponding number on another arrow pointing in the opposite direction.
Another famous strategy for IF starters:
Mapping conventional mazes can be easily done.
1. save before entering the maze
2. drop an item in the first room or the next room if the first room of the maze is easily distinguishable from the others
3. pick a direction and go there
4. if you arrive in a maze room which is empty, drop an item
5. map the maze in the following way:
Write down the name of the item and put a number next to it. Now draw a circle - for example - with this number and draw lines in all directions including up/down if the maze works like this. Go in a direction as described in 3. Now you drop another item if the room is empty and write that down with the next number.
You then just have to put the number of the item/the room - both is the same - on the direction line.
There are two possibilities:
- you drop an item, put down the number for this room, pick a direction, go there and repeat the process until you arrive at an already visited room. Then you simply go in another direction and continue this. I usually do it this way, because you happen to finish the maze faster
- you drop an item, put down the room number, pick a direction, go there, use the "undo" feature if there is any/restore a save game, preferably a special one you use for temporary saves, pick the next direction and proceed the process until the first room you encountered has no possible directions left.
It looks roughly like this:
1 - sword
2 - bottle
3 - lantern (don't drop that if you can avoid it )
...
2 3
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<- 1 -> <- 2 -> 1
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You get the picture.
After you mapped the maze, restore the game before the mapping.
If you have not enough inventory items either collect more of them - simple isn't it? - or map a few parts of the maze, then pick up items from the first room, the second room, third room, in this order, again and continue mapping the rest. But keep in mind that empty rooms could have contained an item in the first part of the mapping. You can avoid that by limiting the items you pick up from already mapped rooms. Every time you encounter an empty room you just have to test some directions which you know lead to other known rooms. If the directions in the empty room match with the ones which contained the item you picked up, it's the very same room. This is getting too hard to explain. Let's hope you never encounter mazes with an empty inventory!
I did a few times and had to map VERY carefully you might imagine.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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